Ladies SP 13:15 pm Eastern Time Friday, November 20 | Page 17 | Golden Skate

Ladies SP 13:15 pm Eastern Time Friday, November 20

DarkestMoon

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Question: Did Sasha "need" to break the flow of her Arasbesque or did she do it because the COP requires her to do three spiral positions? (At least I thought it required it.)

Also, just watched the Mao SP from SA from 2006 and it IS hard to understand how Rochette's deserves a better score. I mean maybe Mao flutzed but apart from that... Even so, I think it's a good point whoever said that it's not THAT big of a deal that Rochette got 70. it's not the Olympics and it's not like they handed her a world record.

It was 2004 worlds, under 6.0. COP-programs weren't universally adopted yet. She did an Arabesque into a Hydrant into a charlotte. Breaking the flow doesn't give her an extra position. My point was that there was a break in the flow of her Arabesque almost as if she needed the break to give herself a push and continue the rest of it. That's why I posted videos of Michelle and Shizuka (granted it was a stretch spiral) who held out their COE without a break.

As for the bolded part, I said that. :laugh: I'm finished here because the truth is that we all want to be factually correct and it seems that neither of us will yield since we want to be "right". I will take this scuffle on the internet with stride and waltz on over to the Men's SP forum.
 

Nadine

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Haven't read all 22 pages of this thread, but can just imagine what was said!:eek:

Just wanted to say that I watched several of the ladies on replay, but not Nagasu yet, will do so after the men. But what I saw thus far was nothing to get me excited about. Only confirms to me that none of the ladies thus far can touch Yuna Kim, as it should be, that's how great her skating is, but can always improve. ;)

Still, my hat goes off to Alissa Czisny, she did exceptionally well, but alas the FS will tell the tale.

Also must say I was surprised Suzuki finished so low ~ what I saw of her skate didn't seem to justify the finish, but hey this whole GP has been a little freaky, so really not too surprised. Still, there is the FS, and she has an opportunity to finish strong.

Final note, all countries/feds partake in political bias, so not surprised to see it here as well. I just want the Olympics to be better, that's all, I don't really care about the GPs, et al, just the Olympics (& of course Nationals & Worlds). :)
 

Bennett

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
But GPs are a prelude of the Olympics and Worlds that set the standard for the reputation scores in GOE and PCS.
 

Nadine

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Yeah, I know all that, but who really cares who wins a GP medal 5/10/20/30/40/50/et al years from now? ;) Not me, lol.:biggrin:
 

Phoenix347

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Haven't read all 22 pages of this thread, but can just imagine what was said!:eek:

Just wanted to say that I watched several of the ladies on replay, but not Nagasu yet, will do so after the men. But what I saw thus far was nothing to get me excited about. Only confirms to me that none of the ladies thus far can touch Yuna Kim, as it should be, that's how great her skating is, but can always improve. ;)

Still, my hat goes off to Alissa Czisny, she did exceptionally well, but alas the FS will tell the tale.

Also must say I was surprised Suzuki finished so low ~ what I saw of her skate didn't seem to justify the finish, but hey this whole GP has been a little freaky, so really not too surprised. Still, there is the FS, and she has an opportunity to finish strong.

Final note, all countries/feds partake in political bias, so not surprised to see it here as well. I just want the Olympics to be better, that's all, I don't really care about the GPs, et al, just the Olympics (& of course Nationals & Worlds). :)

You really think Joannie Rochette is not a rival for Yuna? If Joannie can be within a few points of Yuna in the SP, she could put a quite a bit a pressure on Yuna. Can you imagine if during the free skate Rochette really nail the program and have the whole place erupting with applause and national pride and Yuna has to skate next? That would be a tough situation for anyone to skate after. Remember what happened to Kostner after Yuna's free skate at the worlds in LA. She missed every triple. It's going to be a lot more competitive than people think.

Anyway, we're going to see a preamble to the Olympics at the Grand Prix finals. We'll see how the rejuvenated Rochette will do against Yuna there. That's going to be an intriguing precursor to Vancouver.
 
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R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
You really think Joannie Rochette is not a rival for Yuna? If Joannie can with a few points of Yuna in the SP, she could put a quite a bit a pressure on Yuna. Can you imagine if during the free skate Rochette really nail the program and have the whole place erupting with applause and national pride and Yuna has to skate next? That would be a tough situation for anyone to skate after.

Yeah, we got a taste of that last week, when she had to skate after Flatt brought the house down in Lake Placid.

And WHY is Cohen being discussed in a thread about an event that doesn't feature her, and she has been MIA for 4 years?!

I just hope that one of the Americans can emerge as a medal contender...I don't see it unless they skate lights out and the favorites falter...not impossible but the odds are lousy given the depth of the international field. :(
 

Bennett

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Although I do not have too much expectation on Mao this season, Miki also may surprise us. She can be strong under pressures unless she has something going on in herself.
 

MKFSfan

Medalist
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
That was once. :rolleye:

Joannie fell on her Footwork Sequence at 2007 Worlds (and another time I believe). Should I assume her skating skills are weak because of that?
If she stopped doing FW sequences that garnered Levels 3, then yes, I would say her skating skills are weak.

Please show me how she is "scraping by":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI-cbt1u1uc

She covers the length of the rink twice in her Spiral Sequence. That makes you factually wrong.
I didn't watch this link, but it's not about skating the length of the rink, it's about depth, about the curve, the ice coverage, that makes a spiral sequence superior. Obviously there are many parts to a spiral, and I think according to many viewers, edging, ice coverage and speed take a back seat to extension and position. Unless you see these skaters live, it's very hard to see how impressive strong basics come across when viewing on TV. I have a feeling Joannie falls into this category, but I haven't seen her live. I do know I personally was much more impressed with watching Yuka Sato just stroke around than I was with Sasha spiraling at SOI two years ago. But to each their own!
 

gracefulswan

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
You really think Joannie Rochette is not a rival for Yuna? If Joannie can be within a few points of Yuna in the SP, she could put a quite a bit a pressure on Yuna. Can you imagine if during the free skate Rochette really nail the program and have the whole place erupting with applause and national pride and Yuna has to skate next? That would be a tough situation for anyone to skate after. Remember what happened to Kostner after Yuna's free skate at the worlds in LA. She missed every triple. It's going to be a lot more competitive than people think.

Anyway, we're going to see a preamble to the Olympics at the Grand Prix finals. We'll see how the rejuvenated Rochette will do against Yuna there. That's going to be an intriguing precursor to Vancouver.


i think she's a big rival myself! i consider that if joannie can stay with 5 pts of yuna going into the free, she'll set herself up quite, quite well. her free program, imho, is a bit better constructed and i prefer it over yuna's. and i believe she skated more clean longs than yuna has. the latter has never skated clean at worlds in a long program even though she's a world medalist 3x over. i'm wondering if she can finally do a clean one when it will count the most. i can't imagine that the judges would prefer yuna, if she makes a mistake, to a clean joannie, esp. when the games will be in canada. that will call into question the judges once again not doing their job of judging impartially a la salt lake..... i think, if both skate a clean short, that they should stay not too far apart.... yuna will have to skate lights out in canada to win over rochette if the latter doesn't falter. seriously. don't take grand prix scores too much to heart i say.... we all saw that when sasha was competing in the grand prixs leading up to turino, she was consistently scoring worse than her main russian rival who got such 'high' scores.... and then suddenly, at the olympics, her scores were not 'so' bad after all in comparison...lol. the grand prixs are no where near the olympics in terms of importance or prestige..... :laugh:
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
“If she does the two spins (better), she’s a 65,” Berlin said. “And without the minus on the triple flip, she’s a 66. So, if she can really bring that program to the height of its performance, it would be a 70-pointer.”

Quote from Julie Berlin about Alissa's skate today and her potential for improvement ... I dunno ... what do you guys think? Wishful thinking?
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Alright so with this whole inflated scoring thing, you can't compare scores of today with those of 3 and 4 years ago (in the case of mao and sasha). The scores have in general been getting higher each year under the new system. Take Alissa, in 2005 she delivered a short program at SC much like her one today, possibly even better, and received a 58. 54 - 6 points lower than her SP score today with no real rhyme or reason. There is, however, something to be said about maturity, though technically Mao's nocturne SP was superior to Joannie's, at 16 she was still a bit junior-ish in her presentation. Joannie has been skating much longer than Mao had at 16 (she's 7 years older...) and her skating has benefitted from this longevity.

Also, I think Joannie is competition for Yu Na, and definitely for Mao and Miki. The pressure doesn't seem to get to Miki much, and Mao normally puts up good long programs though she tends to make silly mistakes in the short, but pressure DOES seem to affect Yu Na. She's good enough to medal with mistakes, but at 2007 worlds Kimmie didn't do great after following Mao's amazing performance in her home country, Carolina absolutely bombed after Yu Na was amazing at worlds last year, and Alissa can't even seem to take the pressure of being at worlds considering she always performs way better at all her other competitions of the season. The Olympics will be intense, and we can't underestimate the girls who can deal with the pressure, Joannie, Rachael, Ashley.

Any predictions for tomorrow's FS results?
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Quote from Julie Berlin about Alissa's skate today and her potential for improvement ... I dunno ... what do you guys think? Wishful thinking?

If Alissa wasn't such a nervous girl I'd say it's possible, however I think she's too cautious because of it to go out and attack the program like she'd need to to get that 70. She could maybe pull it off in a US competition where the judges are in her favor, but internationally, i'd say it's a stretch. Plus without a 3-3 there's no reason anyone should be scoring a 70 unless they are competing in their home country with judges who support them
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
If Alissa wasn't such a nervous girl I'd say it's possible, however I think she's too cautious because of it to go out and attack the program like she'd need to to get that 70. She could maybe pull it off in a US competition where the judges are in her favor, but internationally, i'd say it's a stretch. Plus without a 3-3 there's no reason anyone should be scoring a 70 unless they are competing in their home country with judges who support them

I guess ... but her 63 today makes me think the 65 from 2009 nationals wasn't completely ridiculous. I keep waiting for someone to question her score today but so far no one has ... so here's hoping she'll keep up the momentum!!
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
Obviously there are many parts to a spiral, and I think according to many viewers, edging, ice coverage and speed take a back seat to extension and position.

Speed is necessary as well but Sasha doesn't fail in that area. Her Spirals cover the ice fine, IMO.

Caroline Zhang has amazing extension too but I wouldn't put her Spirals on the same level as Sasha's at all. I don't feel like you are giving Sasha enough credit. Nobody in the World can match her Spirals and that says something. It shouldn't be ignored just because other skaters have deeper edges (something which isn't necessary for a great Spiral). And, again, I'd love to see how superior other skaters' edging would be if they were attempting (or had the ability to attempt!!!) the positions that Sasha is capable of!

BTW, Sasha does have quite a smooth change-of-edge in her Spiral as well. Not as great as Michelle's but nobody can touch Michelle in terms of that.
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Is Alissa consistent in practices?

yeah good question. I've often wondered that myself. Everyone says she only tumbles because of nerves but is that really it? Her jumps are pretty puny even when she lands them. The question is ... can she improve them as Julie Berlin seems to be implying?
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
yeah good question. I've often wondered that myself. Everyone says she only tumbles because of nerves but is that really it? Her jumps are pretty puny even when she lands them. The question is ... can she improve them as Julie Berlin seems to be implying?

I think she CAN, the question is if she WILL in a high pressure event such as worlds, the olympics, and even nationals this year. We need to see if she has really overcome her nervous demons. She tends to do well during the grand prix season, we'll see if it lasts
 
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