Ladies SP 13:15 pm Eastern Time Friday, November 20

[amateur]

I think some of this alleged "overscoring" that seems to be consistently happening to the favourites in each GP event, is maybe related to the lack of depth in each field. In just about every case, the favourite has shown overwhelmingly superior skating in their competition, and had no top-tier competitor. And the format almost always has the favourite going last... so it's like, the judges watch several 4th tier skaters, a bunch of 3rd tier skaters, a handful of 2nd-tier skaters (some of whom bomb their program or underrotate jumps) and then - AH! finally! this top tier skater who blows everyone away at the end of it all. It is perhaps easy and human to get over-enthusiastic handing out positive marks in such a scenario, but would not be the same when all the top skaters are there against each other, showing up each other's relative strengths and weaknesses, and skating in a slightly more random order. Just a thought. We'll see how it plays out.

[DarkestMoon]

I think some of this alleged "overscoring" that seems to be consistently happening to the favourites in each GP event, is maybe related to the lack of depth in each field. In just about every case, the favourite has shown overwhelmingly superior skating in their competition, and had no top-tier competitor. And the format almost always has the favourite going last... so it's like, the judges watch several 4th tier skaters, a bunch of 3rd tier skaters, a handful of 2nd-tier skaters (some of whom bomb their program or underrotate jumps) and then - AH! finally! this top tier skater who blows everyone away at the end of it all. It is perhaps easy and human to get over-enthusiastic handing out positive marks in such a scenario, but would not be the same when all the top skaters are there against each other, showing up each other's relative strengths and weaknesses, and skating in a slightly more random order. Just a thought. We'll see how it plays out.

Yes to this. It's been an odd Grand Prix season. You take all top ladies and put them into one comp, ideally the Grand Prix and I can still see Yu-na being in first but the scores might (or at least should) be within range.

[Medusa]

Entire post

Definitely. Anyone remember my fits over some of Patrick Chan's scores during last season, or over Takahashi's during the season before that? At worlds it was an even playing field for all the guys, every time.

[Layfan]

Sasha needed break the flow of her Arabesque.

I'm talking in comparison to the Arabesque spiral in this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSaV440TLHg

Question: Did Sasha "need" to break the flow of her Arasbesque or did she do it because the COP requires her to do three spiral positions? (At least I thought it required it.)

Also, just watched the Mao SP from SA from 2006 and it IS hard to understand how Rochette's deserves a better score. I mean maybe Mao flutzed but apart from that... Even so, I think it's a good point whoever said that it's not THAT big of a deal that Rochette got 70. it's not the Olympics and it's not like they handed her a world record.
After all, Rochette wasn't competing against the Mao of 2006 or the Sasha of 2003...

[Bennett]

I haven't watched it yet. But I heard that Akiko was kind of slow possibly because of the fear of the smaller N American sized rink. Takahashi also said that the rink is so small and scary. Is the Olympics going to be done in a smaller rink? If so, they have to prepare. I recall Nobu bombing the fence.

[DarkestMoon]

Question: Did Sasha "need" to break the flow of her Arasbesque or did she do it because the COP requires her to do three spiral positions? (At least I thought it required it.)

Also, just watched the Mao SP from SA from 2006 and it IS hard to understand how Rochette's deserves a better score. I mean maybe Mao flutzed but apart from that... Even so, I think it's a good point whoever said that it's not THAT big of a deal that Rochette got 70. it's not the Olympics and it's not like they handed her a world record.

It was 2004 worlds, under 6.0. COP-programs weren't universally adopted yet. She did an Arabesque into a Hydrant into a charlotte. Breaking the flow doesn't give her an extra position. My point was that there was a break in the flow of her Arabesque almost as if she needed the break to give herself a push and continue the rest of it. That's why I posted videos of Michelle and Shizuka (granted it was a stretch spiral) who held out their COE without a break.

As for the bolded part, I said that. I'm finished here because the truth is that we all want to be factually correct and it seems that neither of us will yield since we want to be "right". I will take this scuffle on the internet with stride and waltz on over to the Men's SP forum.

[Nadine]

Haven't read all 22 pages of this thread, but can just imagine what was said!

Just wanted to say that I watched several of the ladies on replay, but not Nagasu yet, will do so after the men. But what I saw thus far was nothing to get me excited about. Only confirms to me that none of the ladies thus far can touch Yuna Kim, as it should be, that's how great her skating is, but can always improve.

Still, my hat goes off to Alissa Czisny, she did exceptionally well, but alas the FS will tell the tale.

Also must say I was surprised Suzuki finished so low ~ what I saw of her skate didn't seem to justify the finish, but hey this whole GP has been a little freaky, so really not too surprised. Still, there is the FS, and she has an opportunity to finish strong.

Final note, all countries/feds partake in political bias, so not surprised to see it here as well. I just want the Olympics to be better, that's all, I don't really care about the GPs, et al, just the Olympics (& of course Nationals & Worlds).

[Bennett]

But GPs are a prelude of the Olympics and Worlds that set the standard for the reputation scores in GOE and PCS.

[Nadine]

Yeah, I know all that, but who really cares who wins a GP medal 5/10/20/30/40/50/et al years from now? Not me, lol.

[Phoenix347]

Haven't read all 22 pages of this thread, but can just imagine what was said!

Just wanted to say that I watched several of the ladies on replay, but not Nagasu yet, will do so after the men. But what I saw thus far was nothing to get me excited about. Only confirms to me that none of the ladies thus far can touch Yuna Kim, as it should be, that's how great her skating is, but can always improve.

Still, my hat goes off to Alissa Czisny, she did exceptionally well, but alas the FS will tell the tale.

Also must say I was surprised Suzuki finished so low ~ what I saw of her skate didn't seem to justify the finish, but hey this whole GP has been a little freaky, so really not too surprised. Still, there is the FS, and she has an opportunity to finish strong.

Final note, all countries/feds partake in political bias, so not surprised to see it here as well. I just want the Olympics to be better, that's all, I don't really care about the GPs, et al, just the Olympics (& of course Nationals & Worlds).

You really think Joannie Rochette is not a rival for Yuna? If Joannie can be within a few points of Yuna in the SP, she could put a quite a bit a pressure on Yuna. Can you imagine if during the free skate Rochette really nail the program and have the whole place erupting with applause and national pride and Yuna has to skate next? That would be a tough situation for anyone to skate after. Remember what happened to Kostner after Yuna's free skate at the worlds in LA. She missed every triple. It's going to be a lot more competitive than people think.

Anyway, we're going to see a preamble to the Olympics at the Grand Prix finals. We'll see how the rejuvenated Rochette will do against Yuna there. That's going to be an intriguing precursor to Vancouver.

[R.D.]

You really think Joannie Rochette is not a rival for Yuna? If Joannie can with a few points of Yuna in the SP, she could put a quite a bit a pressure on Yuna. Can you imagine if during the free skate Rochette really nail the program and have the whole place erupting with applause and national pride and Yuna has to skate next? That would be a tough situation for anyone to skate after.

Yeah, we got a taste of that last week, when she had to skate after Flatt brought the house down in Lake Placid.

And WHY is Cohen being discussed in a thread about an event that doesn't feature her, and she has been MIA for 4 years?!

I just hope that one of the Americans can emerge as a medal contender...I don't see it unless they skate lights out and the favorites falter...not impossible but the odds are lousy given the depth of the international field. :(

[Bennett]

Although I do not have too much expectation on Mao this season, Miki also may surprise us. She can be strong under pressures unless she has something going on in herself.

[R.D.]

^ I wouldn't count either of them out

[MKFSfan]

That was once.

Joannie fell on her Footwork Sequence at 2007 Worlds (and another time I believe). Should I assume her skating skills are weak because of that?

If she stopped doing FW sequences that garnered Levels 3, then yes, I would say her skating skills are weak.

Please show me how she is "scraping by":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI-cbt1u1uc

She covers the length of the rink twice in her Spiral Sequence. That makes you factually wrong.

I didn't watch this link, but it's not about skating the length of the rink, it's about depth, about the curve, the ice coverage, that makes a spiral sequence superior. Obviously there are many parts to a spiral, and I think according to many viewers, edging, ice coverage and speed take a back seat to extension and position. Unless you see these skaters live, it's very hard to see how impressive strong basics come across when viewing on TV. I have a feeling Joannie falls into this category, but I haven't seen her live. I do know I personally was much more impressed with watching Yuka Sato just stroke around than I was with Sasha spiraling at SOI two years ago. But to each their own!

[gracefulswan]

You really think Joannie Rochette is not a rival for Yuna? If Joannie can be within a few points of Yuna in the SP, she could put a quite a bit a pressure on Yuna. Can you imagine if during the free skate Rochette really nail the program and have the whole place erupting with applause and national pride and Yuna has to skate next? That would be a tough situation for anyone to skate after. Remember what happened to Kostner after Yuna's free skate at the worlds in LA. She missed every triple. It's going to be a lot more competitive than people think.

Anyway, we're going to see a preamble to the Olympics at the Grand Prix finals. We'll see how the rejuvenated Rochette will do against Yuna there. That's going to be an intriguing precursor to Vancouver.

i think she's a big rival myself! i consider that if joannie can stay with 5 pts of yuna going into the free, she'll set herself up quite, quite well. her free program, imho, is a bit better constructed and i prefer it over yuna's. and i believe she skated more clean longs than yuna has. the latter has never skated clean at worlds in a long program even though she's a world medalist 3x over. i'm wondering if she can finally do a clean one when it will count the most. i can't imagine that the judges would prefer yuna, if she makes a mistake, to a clean joannie, esp. when the games will be in canada. that will call into question the judges once again not doing their job of judging impartially a la salt lake..... i think, if both skate a clean short, that they should stay not too far apart.... yuna will have to skate lights out in canada to win over rochette if the latter doesn't falter. seriously. don't take grand prix scores too much to heart i say.... we all saw that when sasha was competing in the grand prixs leading up to turino, she was consistently scoring worse than her main russian rival who got such 'high' scores.... and then suddenly, at the olympics, her scores were not 'so' bad after all in comparison...lol. the grand prixs are no where near the olympics in terms of importance or prestige.....