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Thread: Ladies SP 13:15 pm Eastern Time Friday, November 20

  1. #376
    Rink Rat i love to skate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix347 View Post
    However, I must also say that I did not see the joy of skating in her skating that I've seen in some top skaters, i.e. Michelle Kwan. I will never forget seeing Michelle in almost tears after her performance from the pure joy of it. That kind of joy is missing from her skating... but very very few skaters have that. Nonetheless, it was an excellent performance that is deservedly first place.
    Are you supposed to look joyful in a tango? Joannie is a very reserved and sometimes shy girl. Just because she has a different personality or appearance on the ice doesn't mean that she isn't full of joy. She loves to skate and she has a personality where she doesn't show much outward emotion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinga View Post
    Well that is your opinion, I have mine. If you ask a question what is mature in my dictionary, what is not mature in yours? I mean, do I have to explain the meaning and feeling behind the basic words (I have not seen that it was required from other posters here explaining their opinions)? To me, her skating is more femminine and sophisticated than Mao's or, to lesser extent, Yuna's.
    :chorus::chorus::chorus:

    Do you "really" see her more feminine than Mao or Yuna? If so, I am now witnessing a real cultural (or personal?) difference! On the internet of some Asian country (I wouldn't tell which), I found she was called as "brother" instead of "sister" in a cute way (no way in a derogatory term). In most of the Oriental eyes, she belongs to less feminine style (maybe because of her muscular body?) than, let say, Alissa, Mirai, Sasha, Caroline, Ashley, Mao, Yuna, Yukari. Miki seems more likely to belong to the category of Joannie, Carolina style. I am talking about general consensus: there are always exceptions.

    All this does not mean that I don't like Joannie. To be honest, her style and artistry was just so-so to me until last season, although I liked her power. But I really started to like her after seeing her Tango this season! This seems to bring up more femininity from her and I think It's her best program (at least to me). I wish her all the best this season!
    Last edited by zartian; 11-21-2009 at 11:49 AM.

  3. #378
    Custom Title Charlotte Elizabeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    She has very good extensions:
    http://photos.skatetoday.com/albums/...TE20545948.jpg

    http://academie.csla.nordtic.net/loc...9c6e-4bedc.jpg

    She also has an incredible extension on her jump landings. It is the best in the world:
    http://www.nancarrow-webdesk.com/war...g.410333_t.jpg

    Just because she doesn't twist her body into a pretzel or hold her leg in a vertical line doesn't mean she has extension problems!
    Ok, agreed. Her extensions on your photos are good. But it's not what I kept in mind when I was posting. For me layback spin, Arabesque and Charlotte spirals positions are extreamely important. Many skaters can do V spiral pretty good but in the same time their Arabesque is quite poor. And I know about beautiful quolity of Joannie's edges and speed. It's just not the first thing I look for in spirals.

  4. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by zartian View Post
    Do you "really" see her more feminine than Mao or Yuna? If so, I am now witnessing a real cultural (or personal?) difference! On the internet of some Asian country (I wouldn't tell which), I found she was called as "brother" instead of "sister" in a cute way (no way in a derogatory term). In most of the Oriental eyes, she belongs to less feminine style (maybe because of her muscular body?) than, let say, Alissa, Mirai, Sasha, Caroline, Ashley, Mao, Yuna, Yukari. Miki seems more likely to belong to the category of Joannie, Carolina style. I am talking about general consensus: there are always exceptions.
    To say that she isn't feminine because of her muscular body is absolutely ridiculous. I know it was not supposed to come out this way, but the comment about her being seen more as a "brother" is completely derogatory and offensive, IMO.

    In Canada she is definietly seen as feminine, strong, powerful and beautiful: I am glad we don't have such narrow views on what is "feminine"

    http://www.thestar.com/sports/figure...s-sultry-style

  5. #380
    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    She has very good extensions:
    http://photos.skatetoday.com/albums/...TE20545948.jpg

    http://academie.csla.nordtic.net/loc...9c6e-4bedc.jpg

    She also has an incredible extension on her jump landings. It is the best in the world:
    http://www.nancarrow-webdesk.com/war...g.410333_t.jpg

    Just because she doesn't twist her body into a pretzel or hold her leg in a vertical line doesn't mean she has extension problems!
    I agree. ^Good examples. I have heard the same criticism of Michelle's extension in the past. Joannie's LP is my favorite of the ladies this season. It has everything that an Olympic program should have and her SP is just frosting on the cake. Joannie has a very legitimate shot at Gold at Vancouver. She is getting very good scores and excellent PC's. JMO

  6. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    To say that she isn't feminine because of her muscular body is absolutely ridiculous. I know it was not supposed to come out this way, but the comment about her being seen more as a "brother" is completely derogatory and offensive, IMO.

    In Canada she is definietly seen as feminine, strong, powerful and beautiful: I am glad we don't have such narrow views on what is "feminine"

    http://www.thestar.com/sports/figure...s-sultry-style
    I totally agree. Being powerful does not exclude being feminine too.

  7. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlotte Elizabeth View Post
    Ok, agreed. Her extensions on your photos are good. But it's not what I kept in mind when I was posting. For me layback spin, Arabesque and Charlotte spirals positions are extreamely important. Many skaters can do V spiral pretty good but in the same time their Arabesque is quite poor. And I know about beautiful quolity of Joannie's edges and speed. It's just not the first thing I look for in spirals.
    To you they may not be up to par for what you expect to see but she doesn't have "extension problems". Some people just don't have the flexibility in the back to perform an amazing lay back spin or they aren't capable of doing a Charlotte - which I find to be very ugly.

    In my view, flexibility is an area where some people's bodies just don't allow for the execution of certain moves - no matter how much stretching takes place. Many skaters can do spread eagles but some can't because their hips don't open up and there is not enough flexibility in their ankles. It's not that it is a problem, it's just not physically possible.
    Last edited by i love to skate; 11-21-2009 at 12:18 PM.

  8. #383
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    Caroline seems to have a poor attitude toward the scores she gets, does she not realize that there are serious flaws in her skating that need to be corrected if she ever hopes to be competitive..??

  9. #384
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    To say that she isn't feminine because of her muscular body is absolutely ridiculous. I know it was not supposed to come out this way, but the comment about her being seen more as a "brother" is completely derogatory and offensive, IMO.

    In Canada she is definietly seen as feminine, strong, powerful and beautiful: I am glad we don't have such narrow views on what is "feminine"
    I agree with everything, except where you say "it was not supposed to come out as derogatory". IMO, calling a lady "brother" conveys disdain in and of itself. No woman wants to be called "brother" unless she knows it is ironic.

    As someone with "pencil arms" with no time to go to a gym (with most classmates in the same boat), seeing Joannie look as fit as she does is welcome, refreshing, and beautiful.

  10. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    That's what happened to Kimmie and Emily and seems like it could happen to Caroline Zhang
    It can be argued that Zhang never really reached the top though...she doesn't even have a national championship. her highest finish there is 3rd.

  11. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonbinfan86 View Post
    Caroline seems to have a poor attitude toward the scores she gets, does she not realize that there are serious flaws in her skating that need to be corrected if she ever hopes to be competitive..??
    Maybe it explains why she won't change coaches and has so many of them.
    I think Caroline will realize sooner or later that a major overhaul is needed or she will no longer be a factor in senior skating competitions.

    If she was actually serious - or willing to recognize her jump flaws - she would have switched to Carroll or Arutunian last season when both had openings.

    I don't imagine either would put up with her though as she seems to want to be the one in charge of her own training.

    Mao has probably been hurt by a similar attitude, although Mao is a much better skater than Caroline.

  12. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by prettykeys View Post
    I agree with everything, except where you say "it was not supposed to come out as derogatory". IMO, calling a lady "brother" conveys disdain in and of itself. No woman wants to be called "brother" unless she knows it is ironic.

    As someone with "pencil arms" with no time to go to a gym (with most classmates in the same boat), seeing Joannie look as fit as she does is welcome, refreshing, and beautiful.
    Oops! I went too far! I myself am not the person who will ever call her brother. (I swear! ) I just saw some people saying that on the web and quoted that in order to emphasize that she is not particularly viewed as more feminine than the other skaters the original poster mentioned.

    If you think it is really offensive and would like me to delete my post, I'll do that. Just tell me.

  13. #388
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    She has very good extensions:
    http://photos.skatetoday.com/albums/...TE20545948.jpg

    http://academie.csla.nordtic.net/loc...9c6e-4bedc.jpg

    She also has an incredible extension on her jump landings. It is the best in the world:
    http://www.nancarrow-webdesk.com/war...g.410333_t.jpg

    Just because she doesn't twist her body into a pretzel or hold her leg in a vertical line doesn't mean she has extension problems!

    Actually, I don't find her position in the second picture very good. Obviously, she is more flexible that most people in the world. But she is cheating to get her leg up higher. She's leaning sideways, her hip is lifted, and even though you can see that far down, I can tell her standing knee is bent from the line of her hip.
    It's the not the worst I've seen by far but it is not an attractive position.

    You are right that skaters don't have to be able to twist their bodies into pretzels to be the best in the world - but they should honor the extension they DO have, and just make the most of it. It's what I always loved most about Michelle Kwan and even Irina Slutskaya's spirals.

  14. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by prettykeys View Post
    I agree with everything, except where you say "it was not supposed to come out as derogatory". IMO, calling a lady "brother" conveys disdain in and of itself. No woman wants to be called "brother" unless she knows it is ironic.
    I just said it wasn't supposed to come out that way because the poster wasn't the one that was saying it but was reporting on what other people had said or written on the internet.

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    I thought Joannie's scores were completely warranted. On the other hand I found Laura Lepisto's placement to be very strange, and didn't think the errors Suzuki made should have put her so far down the list. However, third to eighth place is practically a tie, so it will come down to the long program.

    As to Czisny being behind Rochette — Czisny does not have Joannie's speed on the ice. It is particularly noticeable live. This does influence how an entire program looks and thus PCS.

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