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Thread: Ladies SP 13:15 pm Eastern Time Friday, November 20

  1. #406
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    I agree...just DMI

  2. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by amateur View Post
    Good lord, I get the impression people be would be much happier if Joannie had scored 69.88 or something in this SP instead of 70.0. It's just a number! She is not scoring "well into the 70's without a 3-3" (gasp!), she barely squeaked out a 70.00. Who knows, the judges might have scored it slightly stricter if anyone else here had skated to her level for a better comparison. She might have benefitted from a slightly more enthusisatic response to the judges also from skating last in front of an enthusiastic home crowd. A 10th of a point here, a 10th of a point there... These things happen!!!!. Or maybe the 70 would still stand - she did in fact deliver a solid and fully mature program. Her previous PB is only a little over 2 points off this score anyway, which she received for a program with similar content. Her Choreo and interpretation are arguably better here.

    I just finally got to watch the whole peformance. I think it is a pretty fabulous MATURE program, skated and interpreted extremely well, technically solid though not without various little things to nitpick on.. but it's not like she received any "perfect" score because she reached magical 70.

    Can people PLEASE stop comparing scores from other years?
    Applause.

  3. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    Ugh, people need to stop comparing scores with those from years ago! Especially those when Mao and Yu Na were 16 and still developing into the skaters they are today.
    Fine, forget about Mao, since I could not find a video of Mao's claire
    de lune performance on youtube because they seem to be deleted. (STOP DELETING MAO'S VIDEOS DANG IT!!!)

    However,in my original posting earlier, I also asked whether Joannie skated better or as well as Yuna in her 2009 4CC performance (Danse Macabre), which was also a world record breaking performance. I am not saying that Joannie
    did not deserve a high score, but I have a difficult time understanding how Joannie's PCS here can be higher than Yuna's, even though Joannie did not do 3-3, her spins are not up to Yuna's level and also you can't say Joannie's step sequence can be more difficult....

    At least when Mao does a clean performance and receieves a high PCS, I can understand, wow, Mao skates really soft on the ice, her steps are impressive, and her spins and spirals are gorgeous, even though they may be slightly slow. Again, this is just my opinion.

    Ps: Just saw Alissa's performance, and that girl really has beautiful spins and spirals.... She is absolutely beautiful... only if she could deliver what she has!!!! :(
    Last edited by figurejennah; 11-21-2009 at 05:32 PM.

  4. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan View Post
    I still don't love her spiral sequences ... but I don't love Yuna Kim's either...
    You know, actually Yuna's spiral is not that bad. People would consider it "ugly" because of her toe position, but when I saw it at SA, I thought it was
    simply gorgeous!!! She covered so much ice and was so fast that
    Yuna looked like a smiling little bird.
    It's too bad that the TV cannot capture that speed! So, what I do is
    I try to find all the fan cam videos of skaters on youtube, but they are more rare of course.
    Here's a clip of Yuna's Spiral from a fan cam version!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O16BfvlQD94

    And if someone has fan cam of Joannie, Mao or Alissa, please post on youtube!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by cornell08
    ....but Kim can do a bielman.
    Sigh. agreed.
    Last edited by figurejennah; 11-21-2009 at 05:33 PM.

  5. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by figurejennah View Post

    I have a difficult time understanding how Joannie's PCS here can be higher than Yuna's, even though Joannie did not do 3-3, her spins are not up to Yuna's level and also you can't say Joannie's step sequence can be more difficult....
    The items you mentioned - step sequences, spins, and no 3-3 - have nothing to do with PCS. Those items are reflected in the TES. So why exactly do you have a problem with Joannie's PCS?

  6. #411
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    I've missed most of the commentary about the SP because of work, so I'm playing catch-up. But I'm so thrilled that Joannie, Alissa, and Mirai have done so well. I couldn't find Alissa's SkateCanada SP on YouTube, but I found the Nebelhorn one. Glorious.

    As for Rochette not being a "feminine" skater--hmm. The rebel in me is tempted to insist that anyone with XX chromosomes is automatically a "feminine" skater, so I tend not to use that term. Sorry; it's just a pet peeve of mine. But if I substitute the term "graceful," then Rochette is plenty graceful. To me, the fact that she's so toned and muscular actually adds to her grace, because it gives her control and flow. When I see her at her best, she has plenty of musicality and even elegance.

    The question of whether I prefer her to YuNa is different. I'm rooting for YuNa and Mao principally. YuNa's skating is in a class almost by itself, along with Mao's when she's at her best. But if Joannie has the skate of her life, in her home country, I'm certainly going to rejoice for her.

  7. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    The items you mentioned - step sequences, spins, and no 3-3 - have nothing to do with PCS. Those items are reflected in the TES. So why exactly do you have a problem with Joannie's PCS?
    I am trying to say Joannie's skating does not have that wow quality and factor compared to Yuna and Mao's overall. Do you honestly think Joannie's performance surpasses Yuna and Mao's presentation? And you say it like TES and PCS have no connection at all, which I disagree... Isn't it only natural and justified that the one who skates a more difficult program and delivers it more beautifully would receive a higher PCS?
    Last edited by figurejennah; 11-21-2009 at 07:29 PM.

  8. #413
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    scratching my head

    If Yu Na receives 76 for a program with a 3-3, I think it's fair that Joannie receives 70 for her SP without the 3-3.

    ....... HUH???

  9. #414
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    Pcs

    As I think of it, Laura may have deserved her PCS because it's still 6's. If Yukari receives some 7's, I think that Laura deserves these scores or even more for her edges quality, greater speed, and more exquisite lines if she is clean. Her skating skills are among the best and her performance has understated, sophisticated beauty. I've always wished if performances like hers and Meier received better PCS.
    As I mentioned earlier, I think that Mirai and Akiko were really underscored (5's and 6's). Mirai has superb skating skills and she is really good at selling her programs. Her lines are exquisite. Akiko also delivered a vivacious performance despite being a bit slower than her better times. Mirai might have been disadvantaged for skating earlier and Akiko might have been so for being not well-known yet.
    I did not have a chance to watch Caroline so that I do not know about her.

    BTW, this is such a sensitive topic and I was hesitant to say anything, but Joannie being called Brother elsewhere sounds to me to be similar to Sebastian being called Granny here. I do not personally know the context of either of these pet names. But both pet names could be meant to be innocent, friendly teasing, rather than based on mean intentions. I do not know either skater would appreciate these names though.
    Last edited by Bennett; 11-21-2009 at 09:02 PM.

  10. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    The items you mentioned - step sequences, spins, and no 3-3 - have nothing to do with PCS. Those items are reflected in the TES. So why exactly do you have a problem with Joannie's PCS?
    I also have problem with Joannie's PCS so can I answer instead?

    I just can't digest the fact that Joannie's sp was only 1.95 points behind Kim's
    2007 World SP Tango de Roxanne (71.95).
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjdMwMvd35g

    Here is another example of great presenation skill- Cohen's 2004 World SP
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4mvG...eature=related

    I personally thought Joannie's sp was really boring. (and the music too).
    Forget about TES. She improved, looks pretty solid and I appreciate her efforts.
    But why such a high PCS....?
    Joannie lacks personality- there was absolutely nothing attractive about her tango.
    Her step sequence was just mediocre and dull. (and slow/simple).
    I don't think she has the charm that Cohen or Kim has. She simply lacks the wow factor.

  11. #416
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    whoops, wrong thread I think
    Last edited by R.D.; 11-21-2009 at 10:27 PM.

  12. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by mireillebellau View Post
    I also have problem with Joannie's PCS so can I answer instead?

    I just can't digest the fact that Joannie's sp was only 1.95 points behind Kim's
    2007 World SP Tango de Roxanne (71.95).
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjdMwMvd35g

    Here is another example of great presenation skill- Cohen's 2004 World SP
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4mvG...eature=related

    I personally thought Joannie's sp was really boring. (and the music too).
    Forget about TES. She improved, looks pretty solid and I appreciate her efforts.
    But why such a high PCS....?
    Joannie lacks personality- there was absolutely nothing attractive about her tango.
    Her step sequence was just mediocre and dull. (and slow/simple).
    I don't think she has the charm that Cohen or Kim has. She simply lacks the wow factor.
    Please do not show links from years ago to compare scores and how you think she should be "presenting". This has already been discussed in this thread.They are irrelevant to the coversation. Like I said before, elements (such as step sequences) have nothing to with the PCS. BTW, this element wasn't simple - it was a level 3 .

    You said it yourself that you "personally" thought it was boring.Just because you think that doesn't make it true. I thought it was fantastic, powerful, expressive, and solid. Many other people thought this as well, including the audience and judges. That's what's great about skating - many different opinions.

  13. #418
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    1. If you're gonna compare scores to events seasons ago, I don't think you can be helped. Briefly speaking, though, scores have tended to increase over the course of the COP. Things like understanding of levels help, of course. But it's also worth mentioning that the points have been altered and updated since 2007. I don't know how radically, but that plays a part.

    2. As does different judges. And the level of competition. Many people complain of overscoring at all these competitions. Lysacek at SA had the highest PCS of a man this season for his long program. doris mentioned she found D/W consistently overscored in their CDs. V/M were overscored in their OD here. I suspect that because we're seeing a huge difference in competition in the GPs, we're seeing an inflation of scores. The wow factor is there, relative to the present competition as opposed to the sport/field in general.

    3. If there is nothing attractive about her tango for you, mirellie, than I don't think I can change your mind. If her skating as no personality for you, I can't change your mind. But pretending that it's a fact is not gonna help your understanding one iota.

  14. #419
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    [QUOTE=i love to skate;433179]Please do not show links from years ago to compare scores and how you think she should be "presenting". This has already been discussed in this thread.They are irrelevant to the coversation. Like I said before, elements (such as step sequences) have nothing to with the PCS. BTW, this element wasn't simple - it was a level 3 .

    I've only mentioned step sequence because it has significant contribution to the overall presentation of a performance. I do not agree that it has nothing to do with the PCS.

  15. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by figurejennah View Post
    Do you honestly think Joannie's performance surpasses Yuna and Mao's presentation?
    Yes I do.

    Quote Originally Posted by figurejennah View Post
    And you say it like TES and PCS have no connection at all, which I disagree... Isn't it only natural and justified that the one who skates a more difficult program and delivers it more beautifully would receive a higher PCS?
    Which program is more difficult though? One with downgrades and edge calls or one which has no downgrades or edge calls? I'll take the latter.
    Last edited by i love to skate; 11-21-2009 at 09:44 PM. Reason: spelling

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