Page 32 of 39 FirstFirst ... 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 LastLast
Results 466 to 480 of 575

Thread: Ladies Free Program 19:00 pm Eastern Time Saturday, November 21

  1. #466
    L'art pour l'art Medusa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,752
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinymavy15 View Post
    I am getting very frustrated with the judging at this event. Mirai was pretty much scored for a fall for her second triple lutz, which she turned out of. I didn't see the reason for "e" either. Maybe "!"
    I agree - but those edge calls were harsh for all the ladies. E.g. Akiko also got a big "e" on her (f)lutzes, though she sometimes doesn't get a call on them, or only a "!".

  2. #467
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    6,889
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinymavy15 View Post
    I am getting very frustrated with the judging at this event. Mirai was pretty much scored for a fall for her second triple lutz, which she turned out of. I didn't see the reason for "e" either. Maybe "!"
    I watched the NBC broadcast today with a couple of very casual skating fans.
    By the time the men were done they asked me to quit explaining some of the new rules because they did not understand my explanations and said they missed the judges' scores being shown after each skater.

    They thought Laura was very cute and lively and liked her alot. They did not care as much for Alissa but said they liked her dress better than Laura's. Could have been than "panty thing" Spun just mentioned.

    They thought Mirai was the best and thought Joannie made so many mistakes they couldn't believe she was the winner.

    My guests are around my age and they remember Scott very well and enjoyed his commentary. (I did not make that up )

    From their comments and general reaction I don't get the feeling skating is on the right path. Not as far as having much appeal to casual fans from the USA.

    They said they will watch some skating on the Olympics but said it is not the same since Michelle has retired.

  3. #468
    Down With It
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    13,691
    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    They said they will watch some skating on the Olympics but said it is not the same since Michelle has retired.
    I will say watching skating for me has NOT been the same since 2006 (the last time an American won a world championship)

    There's no longer that tension, that nervous anticipation for me while watching the skaters skate. I do miss that feeling...it was at its height at Nats and Worlds 03, 04...things started to slip in '05 (I blame the NJS) but after '06 it's simply going through the motions ...
    Last edited by R.D.; 11-22-2009 at 06:24 PM.

  4. #469
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Texas, United States
    Posts
    4,980
    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post

    Alissa was, IMO, a bit of a snooze. Her slowness and caution are grinding down my appreciation of her spins and lovely line. Also - girl needs a dress that will cover her butt. You can't go around skating in your panties like that!

    I was very gratified to see that Joannie wasn't happy with her performance and was extremely direct about her mistakes. OK, Joannie - I forgive you. You can keep the gold. But don't pull this one in Vancouver.

    Mirai wasn't fabulous but she moved forward. I'd much rather hear her talk about blowing away the competition than how rotten and miserable she is. I hope she won't beat herself up later for saying that. Can't wait to see her in January.
    .
    LMAO about her dress. I personally like it and didn't really notice the panty thing (not like she had much of a butt to cover) but now I see what you mean. My favorite outfit was Sarah Hecken's, even though she kind of looked like a hot fudge sunday . I seriously hope Joannie gets it together though, this is her year and I really think she can medal at the Olympics if she stops making silly mistakes. Mirai is so intense, I think she will go out fighting hard at nationals. The announcers on NBC said Evan Lysacek is intimidated by her because she's so good . I really hope she goes to the Olympics this year, she can always go again in 2014

  5. #470
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,827
    Here is where I think the point-total judging system has produced disapointing results.

    In the olden days, it might go like this. Skater A gets a string of 5.7s and 5.8s and wins, while skater B gets 5.4s and 5.5s and loses. Why? Because skater A did a triple Lutz, whereas skater B only did a triple Salchow -- an easier jump. Plus, skater B had a two-footed landing, while skater A's spins were more intricate and she skated better to the music.

    Now we say: Skater A got 110 points and won, while skater B got 96 points and lost.

    Why? Because skater A did a triple Lutz (6.0 points), whereas skater B only did a triple Salchow (4.5 points). Plus, skater B had a two-footed landing (minus 1 GOE), while skater A's spins were more intricate (level 3) and she skated better to the music (7.25 in Interpretation.)

    OK. so I just wrote the same paragraph twice. Do the numbers inserted in bold really have any meaning or purpose?
    Last edited by Mathman; 11-22-2009 at 07:04 PM.

  6. #471
    Down With It
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    13,691
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Now we say: Skater A got 110 points and won, while skater B got 96 points and lost.

    Why? Because skater A did a triple Lutz (6.0 points), whereas skater B only did a triple Salchow (4.5 points). Plus, skater B had a two-footed landing (minus 1 GOE), while skater A's spins were faster (plus 1 GOE) and she skated better to the music (7.25 in Interpretation versus 6.50.)

    OK. so I just wrote the same paragraph twice. Do the numbers inserted in bold really have any meaning or purpose?
    Not to me.

    But whatever, I guess. No turning back.

  7. #472
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    521
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Here is where I think the point-total judging system has produced disapointing results.

    In the olden days, it might go like this. Skater A gets a string of 5.7s and 5.8s and wins, while skater B gets 5.4s and 5.5s and loses. Why? Because skater A did a triple Lutz, whereas skater B only did a triple Salchow -- an easier jump. Plus, skater B had a two-footed landing, while skater A's spins were faster and she skated better to the music.

    Now we say: Skater A got 110 points and won, whereas skater B got 96 points and lost.

    Why? Because skater A did a triple Lutz (6.0 points), whereas skater B only did a triple Salchow (4.5 points). Plus, skater B had a two-footed landing (minus 1 GOE), while skater A's spins were faster (plus 1 GOE) and she skated better to the music (7.25 in Interpretation versus 6.50.)

    OK. so I just wrote the same paragraph twice. Do the numbers inserted in bold really have any meaning or purpose?
    What about this situation:

    Skater A skates reasonably well, but falls on one jump. Receives 115 pts. Skater B skates, perfectly in the opinion of the average joe, but URs 3 jumps and flutzes twice. Score 95 pts. Under 6.0, Skater B would win. Fair?

  8. #473
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,827
    Quote Originally Posted by skatingbc View Post
    What about this situation:

    Skater A skates reasonably well, but falls on one jump. Receives 115 pts. Skater B skates, perfectly in the opinion of the average joe, but URs 3 jumps and flutzes twice. Score 95 pts. Under 6.0, Skater B would win. Fair?
    In that case, it would be up to the judgement of the judges whether the cheated jumps and improper landings outweighed the mistakes of the first skater.

    Tara Lipinski was regularly marked down in the 1997-98 season , even though she was world champion, for wrong edge take-offs on her Lutzes. The 6.0 commentators were not shy about pointing out cheated landings.

    Many times a skater with a fall was placed over a skater who seemed to deliver a clean program. So this possibiltiy is not something that the CoP can stake sole claim to. Not at all.
    Last edited by Mathman; 11-22-2009 at 07:45 PM.

  9. #474
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    5,609
    I do love that logical leap.

  10. #475
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,827
    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    I do love that logical leap.
    I assume you were responding to my original rant in the post above. I edited out that grumpy leap of reasoning. (I do kind of believe it, though. )

  11. #476
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    6,889
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Here is where I think the point-total judging system has produced disapointing results.

    In the olden days, it might go like this. Skater A gets a string of 5.7s and 5.8s and wins, while skater B gets 5.4s and 5.5s and loses. Why? Because skater A did a triple Lutz, whereas skater B only did a triple Salchow -- an easier jump. Plus, skater B had a two-footed landing, while skater A's spins were faster and she skated better to the music.

    Now we say: Skater A got 110 points and won, whereas skater B got 96 points and lost.

    Why? Because skater A did a triple Lutz (6.0 points), whereas skater B only did a triple Salchow (4.5 points). Plus, skater B had a two-footed landing (minus 1 GOE), while skater A's spins were faster (plus 1 GOE) and she skated better to the music (7.25 in Interpretation versus 6.50.)

    OK. so I just wrote the same paragraph twice. Do the numbers inserted in bold really have any meaning or purpose?
    Interesting question and maybe an older fan like me will answer differently than a newer fan of the CoP generation.

    I still watch skating the way you describe it in the first paragraph. It is not some form of rebellion but just a habit developed over the years.

    I don't think of levels when I watch steps - I think of the blade work and control, beauty of the motion and if musicality is being expressed.

    I look at jumps differently and if I can't see an edge problem I feel resentment at the tech callers when they downgrade a skater I like.

    Rotations completed in the air are totally without value to me if the skater falls or has a very shaky landing - two footed or a hand on the ice.I downgrade that skater for what I consider to be a failed jump.
    Now it feels like the judges are saying, "well atleast they tried, let's give them some points."

    That is not much different than saying "look at my pretty dress. My family spent alot of money on it so please be sure to boost my presentation marks for trying so hard to be pretty for you." There is effort that should be rewarded and then again .............there is nonsense,

    I don't get too carried away with comparing numbers from different events and see that as another hallucinatory bi-product of CoP scoring and logic.

    In your second paragraph the numbers you show seem to have an impact and deeper meaning to newer fans than I feel. The pcs scores feel not only redundant but give the top skaters a clear and sometimes unfair advantage.

    I find myself feeling gyped watching a competition and not understanding why certain numbers/point totals don't seem to reflect what I just saw on the ice.

    To be honest 6.0 used to disappoint me at times too and the ordinals could be tricky and very treacherous at times.

    But in the past when the event was over I knew who won and why. And if it felt unfair I could see how the different federations marked each skater and where they placed them with the ordinals.

    Today I need to wait until I can find a YouTube clip and go back and search for edge calls and urs that are not always so easy to spot on internet clips.

    I find myself looking at columns of numbers and then think "what does this have to do with figure skating."
    Last edited by janetfan; 11-22-2009 at 07:46 PM.

  12. #477
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    43
    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    I watched the NBC broadcast today with a couple of very casual skating fans.
    By the time the men were done they asked me to quit explaining some of the new rules because they did not understand my explanations and said they missed the judges' scores being shown after each skater.

    They thought Laura was very cute and lively and liked her alot. They did not care as much for Alissa but said they liked her dress better than Laura's. Could have been than "panty thing" Spun just mentioned.

    They thought Mirai was the best and thought Joannie made so many mistakes they couldn't believe she was the winner.

    My guests are around my age and they remember Scott very well and enjoyed his commentary. (I did not make that up )

    From their comments and general reaction I don't get the feeling skating is on the right path. Not as far as having much appeal to casual fans from the USA.

    They said they will watch some skating on the Olympics but said it is not the same since Michelle has retired.
    Those casual fans generally are not concerned with skating itself but only with which country the winner is.

    I find that many people here are blaming CoP for the downhill popularity of FS in the US. I don't agree with them. If FS is less popular than before, it's because you don't have a star skater in ladies field currently who will be able to present your country a gold medal, a national pride, like Michelle, Sasha were. Wasn't ladies part traditionally the most popular field (and we can easily see that by comparing the number of posts here between ladies and mens, etc.)? The absence of a strong potential podium candidates after Sasha is definitley the reason. The transition from 6.0 to CoP simply happened to coincide with that from Sasha to the generation after her. Simple as that. If America brings up another Michell, another Sasha, the popularity will recover. So don't worry.

    Just look at the situation in Japan and Korea. FS wasn't ever more popular than now. The reason? Because they have strong star power: Mao and Yuna. And the rivalry (which has been partly made up by media) between them made FS even more exciting in these countries than ever, coupled with the historical backgrounds between the two countries! Therfore, if these countries too do not continue to have podium skaters, I think the popularity (in terms of casual fans) will cool down.

  13. #478
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    4,221
    Ah, Mathman, I'm sorry to see that you erased your original post, even if it was meant to be flippant, or not. ***edited to add: lol, it wasn't, good for you. But don't feel ashamed about taking it back & redoing your post, we can't all be perfect. :D ***

    You said something about how the public was excited to see Sarah Hughes do two 3/3 combos., but then COP exposed her underrotations, flutzes, was a hot mess, crap. eh?

    Lol, if we were to go all the way back in history we might as well take away 99% of the gold medals awarded, even Dick Button's. He has said numerous times in the past that his jumps were underrotated (which you can see on old movies), even the ones at the Olympics. Not to forget to mention another fav of mine (Sonja Henie) had underrotated jumps. And I'm sure others as well. Let's get out the super slo-mo & deduce it piece by piece by piece for ALL the gold medal winners in ALL the disciplines throughout history.

    That said, I'm with Dick Button, whom said as long as it's not visible to the naked eye, what does it matter?

    But, no, here come the *#@!(*) Canadians that started this mess in the first place because S&P didn't win gold.

    There was nothing wrong with the 6.0 system, never was, rather it has ALWAYS been about the judges cheating, and that continues on to this day but with another system that's supposedly better. Lol, it wasn't about the system to begin with, it was about the judges. Good way to convolute the whole issue though by changing the system, not the judges.

    Final note, I won't be surprised to see a skater fall several times (like Sasha Cohen did at the 2006 Olympics) & win gold against another skater that skated without falls. Arakawa was lucky back then, the system has advanced to the point that if somebody like Sasha falls multiples times she will still win due to her lead from the SP. Watch, wait & see..
    Last edited by Nadine; 11-22-2009 at 07:50 PM. Reason: added info., of course. ;)

  14. #479
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    5,609
    Yeah, Mathman, I was responding to it.

    You know, janetfan, your passion for figure skating, both presently and from a more historical standpoint (your namesake, as an example) is exemplary. You clearly want to like figure skating today (unlike other rosy-eyeds), and I almost wish I disliked COP as much as you do simply so we'd be on the same side. I don't know why I see beauty where so many others see simply math. I don't know why people cry about lack of risk taking when a skater like Kevin Reynolds will attempt a 3-3-2 at the end of his program, or Joannie Rochette will jam her program with technical content in the form of transitions. I don't know how programs as wonderfully light and comic and Takahashi to La Strada or Oda's Chaplin routine aren't creative. I don't understand how people can decry a system that produces the beauty of Virtue and Moir. I don't.

  15. #480
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    5,609
    Quote Originally Posted by Nadine View Post
    Ah, Mathman, I'm sorry to see that you erased your original post, even if it was meant to be flippant, or not. ***edited to add: lol, it wasn't, good for you. But don't feel ashamed about taking it back & redoing your post, we can't all be perfect. :D ***

    You said something about how the public was excited to see Sarah Hughes do two 3/3 combos., but then COP exposed her underrotations, flutzes, was a hot mess, crap. eh?

    Lol, if we were to go all the way back in history we might as well take away 99% of the gold medals awarded, even Dick Button's. He has said numerous times in the past that his jumps were underrotated (which you can see on old movies), even the ones at the Olympics. Not to forget to mention another fav of mine (Sonja Henie) had underrotated jumps. And I'm sure others as well. Let's get out the super slo-mo & deduce it piece by piece by piece for ALL the gold medal winners in ALL the disciplines throughout history.

    That said, I'm with Dick Button, whom said as long as it's not visible to the naked eye, what does it matter?

    But, no, here come the *#@!(*) Canadians that started this mess in the first place because S&P didn't win gold.

    There was nothing wrong with the 6.0 system, never was, rather it has ALWAYS been about the judges cheating, and that continues on to this day but with another system that's supposedly better. Lol, it wasn't about the system to begin with, it was about the judges. Good way to convolute the whole issue though by changing the system, not the judges.

    Final note, I won't be surprised to see a skater fall several times (like Sasha Cohen did at the 2006 Olympics) & win gold against another skater that skated without falls. Arakawa was lucky back then, the system has advanced to the point that if somebody like Sasha falls multiples times she will still win due to her lead from the SP. Watch, wait & see..
    1. If you genuinely believe that in this day and age, Sasha's .02 lead would've saved her from multiple falls, then there really is nothing to discuss.

    2. It's good to know that you're pissed off with the Canadians for not winning gold as opposed to the actual cheating that was going on. It takes a wonderfully difficult position (level four, GOE = 3) to achieve that. Bravo!!!!!

Page 32 of 39 FirstFirst ... 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •