Ladies Free Program 19:00 pm Eastern Time Saturday, November 21 | Page 17 | Golden Skate

Ladies Free Program 19:00 pm Eastern Time Saturday, November 21

beep_beep

Medalist
Joined
Aug 3, 2007
I'm giving my honest opinions. Just look at the protocols (assuming you know what it is).
Ok, no need to become touchy.
Most of us will give our very blunt and honest opinions in a more polite way, but I guess everything goes.
What else are you dissatisfied with about this competition? (Honest question, really)

And I do know what protocols are, thank you.

The scoring of this event is a joke as whole... but I think I've said that a couple of times already :frown2:
 

i love to skate

Medalist
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
I'm very disappointed in SC. What's up with the ridiculous PCS scores for

Canadian skaters? Especially for Patrick Chen and Joannie Rochette.

They are really inflating their PCS and getting ready for the olympics.

Also I'm rather shocked by what Joannie said (I don't need triple triple I can get points from other elements blah blah ~~).

Oh come on as if she deserved that 70.00.

Except for her jumps, her spiral is slow and not so pretty,

her spin is horrible (I wouldn't even call that a layback) and overall

her programs are just so uninspiring. I bet no one will watch her performance

over and over again.

Well if you are going to complain about his scores you could at least spell Patrick's name right!

I will be watching Joannie's performance over and over again :yes:

I'm giving my honest opinions. Just look at the protocols (assuming you know what it is).

There is no need to rude. Jeesh. :no:
 

gourry

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
I think some of the PCS marks are somewhat...... well, I'm just gonna say it, ridiculous.
I honestly don't think Joannie's LP was 16 PCS points better than Akiko's. And did Joannie's SP deserve 5 more PCS points than Alissa's? Nah. Sure, Joannie was the best among today's competitors but it was by no means her best performance. Definately not 9.00 good.
Akiko was so robbed both in SP and LP.
If it has anything to do with homey effect, it's gonna be really interesting to see what's gonna happen in Japan in two weeks.:cool:
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
To follow up on my above post, I will say that the team could be ANY two of those six (minus Gilles, I'm just not sure if she's at the contention level yet and SA didn't help matters any) if the right conditions prevail.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
___________________________

As for Cohen, she's rightfully left out of the discussion because she hasn't shown me she's seriously going to engage in this "comeback". Plus, no one knows what to expect. We've seen the other girls already.

I hope someone will be sure to let Sasha know you have taken her out of the equation.

Maybe that will convince her to quit slacking off and to train harder ;)

But why the sudden change of heart about Alissa?
She did fall and mess up in the 2nd half of her program like she usually does?

When judges look at thses girls at Natls they also consider their coaches. Mirai has the "dean" of coaches in her corner.

I doubt that the judging tonight will be a big factor on US judges. They are not blind and saw the judging was crap tonight.

Actually, I think it is hard to call this. Rachael is not Michelle. She may get a spot due to the sheer mediocrity of the field and not because she is anything more than average herself.
 
Last edited:

krenseby

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
I disagree with your switch. Wagner has had a breakout season so she's been getting more hype than Rachael, whose breakout season was perhaps some time in the past. What's shiny and new always gets the most attention.

Second, Wagner made the GPF and if she does well there, that would mean that she racks up three great performances in a row, whereas as Rachael's only noteworthy accomplishment was at Skate America. Again, more accomplishments, more hype.

So, yeah Wagner will be on the judges' minds as the most amazing U.S. skater of the season.

As for Czisny, I don't know what the Nationals judges will think of her. She's done so bad at Worlds last year that they may just want her to be rewarded justly for her skate but not have her make the Olympics team.

Personally, I'd switch Flatt and Wagner around. If Flatt goes clean at Nats, she's on the Oly team- that's nearly a done deal- it would take knockout performances from Czisny and Wagner plus a real bad night from Flatt to put her out.

So (as of today) in order from best: Flatt, Wagner, Czisny, Nagasu, then I might have Zhang and Gilles tied (if the latter has an off-night, she has no chance whatsoever).

Then, we haven't seen Wagner at the GPF. If she tanks there, does Czisny shoot ahead of her?


___________________________

As for Cohen, she's rightfully left out of the discussion because she hasn't shown me she's seriously going to engage in this "comeback". Plus, no one knows what to expect. We've seen the other girls already.
 

krenseby

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
When judges look at thses girls at Natls they also consider their coaches. Mirai has the "dean" of coaches in her corner.

I really hope you are wrong on that one. Yes, a great coach may be a good thing to have and is a promising sign for a skater's future, but let's not let this consideration enter into the judging at all.

Although, I bet when Sasha teamed up with Tarasova, it gave her tremendous clout. Though, this doesn't seem to be the case with the young Asada!
 

DarkestMoon

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
I'm very disappointed in SC. What's up with the ridiculous PCS scores for

Canadian skaters? Especially for Patrick Chen and Joannie Rochette.

They are really inflating their PCS and getting ready for the olympics.

Also I'm rather shocked by what Joannie said (I don't need triple triple I can get points from other elements blah blah ~~).

Oh come on as if she deserved that 70.00.

Except for her jumps, her spiral is slow and not so pretty,

her spin is horrible (I wouldn't even call that a layback) and overall

her programs are just so uninspiring. I bet no one will watch her performance

over and over again.

Thank you for your 2 cents. :cool: Bitterness is really not your color.

Of all the times she's done a 3-3 in comps post 2006, she's had none of them ratified. Her solo triple jumps are good to begin with. Granted, I still think she should change her toe-seq into a 3sal-3toe because she'll score more.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I hope someone will be sure to let Sasha know you have taken her out of the equation.

Maybe that will convince her to quit slacking off and to train harder ;)

She could care less what I think. :rofl: She's already said she has "no time" for critics. :chorus:


But why the sudden change of heart about Alissa?
She did fall and mess up in the 2nd half of her program like she usually does?

It's her score though. She still scored 100. Wagner and Nagasu could only dream of that score if they fell twice.


Actually, I think it is hard to call this. Rachael is not Michelle. She may get a spot due to the sheer medicrity of the field and not because she is anything more than average herself.

There is no front-runner, but Flatt has been *very* consistent at US Nationals and if the skating is anything like it was tonight (or even at SA) she's in, no question.
 

DarkestMoon

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
I really hope you are wrong on that one. Yes, a great coach may be a good thing to have and is a promising sign for a skater's future, but let's not let this consideration enter into the judging at all.

Although, I bet when Sasha teamed up with Tarasova, it gave her tremendous clout. Though, this doesn't seem to be the case with the young Asada!

Sasha lived and breathed skating with Tarasova. Mao divides her time, thus making it harder, considering how much technical content Mao was trying to work on.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
I really hope you are wrong on that one. Yes, a great coach may be a good thing to have and is a promising sign for a skater's future, but let's not let this consideration enter into the judging at all.

Although, I bet when Sasha teamed up with Tarasova, it gave her tremendous clout. Though, this doesn't seem to be the case with the young Asada!

Yes, I agree and the skater still has to perform.
I just see more talent - athletic talent in Mirai than the others. Between now and Natls Carrol may be able to figure out a way for her to show a little more where she was weak tonight. Mirai;s jumps, when clean look better than Ashley or Rachael. They are higher and cover more distance.

I still think at 16 there should be no rush on skaters. Ashley is 18, Racahel is 17. Maybe it is there time.
I doubt either of them has the talent to become a world champion. I think Mirai does. :yes:
 
Last edited:

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
whole post

We may have to agree to disagree...

One by one:

I disagree with your switch. Wagner has had a breakout season so she's been getting more hype than Rachael, whose breakout season was perhaps some time in the past. What's shiny and new always gets the most attention.

She definitely has come out. And I will say that if she can keep up the momentum she has a good shot at the US title. BUT- she just hasn't shown me that she is consistent enough to be considered a solid contender, plus she is untested under pressure (unlike Flatt, who is).

Second, Wagner made the GPF and if she does well there, that would mean that she racks up three great performances in a row, whereas as Rachael's only noteworthy accomplishment was at Skate America. Again, more accomplishments, more hype.

Placing ahead of a lackluster Yuna Kim in the FS is not exactly a "yeah, whatever" situation imo. Granted, she [Flatt] probably did the best she could, and whether she could improve upon THAT has yet to be seen. I mean the following with all due respect to Wagner, but she made the GPF because a) she had easier events and b) her competitors (including the mighty Mao) all had off nights, which got her in the Final with just ok scores. We've yet to see how she does at the GPF...if she has a rough go there, it's not going to look so good for her any more...OTOH, if she holds her own, she will definitely be at an advantage should it come to a close decision for the Oly team.


As for Czisny, I don't know what the Nationals judges will think of her. She's done so bad at Worlds last year that they may just want her to be rewarded justly for her skate but not have her make the Olympics team.

Actually, that's a valid point. But if she places top two, I don't think they would leave her off the team unless the following scenario occurs:

1) she's 2nd
2) Wagner is 3rd, behind Czisny by less than a point
3) Wagner medals at the GPF.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Are you forgetting this fact:

US judges have already given Mirai a Senior National title. They have passed up Rachael twice.
 

Vash01

Medalist
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
In China Mirai outperformed Joannie and had much bigger crowd responses to both programs. In fact she was the favorite with the Chinese audience

I wonder if something was bugging her tonight. She was very flat

I suspect she was worried about the UR and was focusing on correcting that. That's why she had no expression in her skating. She is still young and learning to combine the technical elements with the presentation.
 

Vash01

Medalist
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
Overall, Mirai showed some progress tonight. I think she can get her smile back but what good is that if she continued with so many downgrades.

BTW, I am sure Carroll is grooming Mirai for 2014. He knows she isn;t ready to win at the biggest events yet.A few of her jumps were as good as any I saw tonight.

That's exactly right. Mirai will peak in 2013-2014. If she makes the US Olympic team, it will be a good experience for her. If she does not make the team, it's no big deal.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Are you forgetting this fact:

US judges have already given Mirai a Senior National title. They have passed up Rachael twice.

Mirai deserved the 2008 title.

The 2009 title is more debatable...it could have gone to either but the margin of victory for Czisny should have been MUCH closer. If it was being judged by ISU judges rather than USFS ones, I can't help but wonder if Flatt would have won if the skating was exactly the same...
 
Last edited:

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
I suspect she was worried about the UR and was focusing on correcting that. That's why she had no expression in her skating. She is still young and learning to combine the technical elements with the presentation.

Mirai alos looked very disappointed after her skate tonight. I don't mind that as it shows a drive to succeed.

I wonder if she was sick or if there was a personal problem? Or maybe she is a "head case"

Her jumping looked like it was the best tonight. I mean Joannie and Laura did alot of doubles and Mirai atleast went for triples.

But her program did seem empty in places.

I think US judges will consider how much faster Mirai skates than Rachael, Ashley and Alissa.

It is just something to think about - which of these girls could be world champion in 2-3 years.
 
Last edited:

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Mirai deserved the 2008 title.

The 2009 title is more debatable...it could have gone to either but the margin of victory for Czisny should have been MUCH closer. If it was an international event, I can't help but wonder if Flatt would have won if the skating was exactly the same...

Good points - but Natls is not an international event,
 
Top