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Thread: Ladies Free Program 19:00 pm Eastern Time Saturday, November 21

  1. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    I hope someone will be sure to let Sasha know you have taken her out of the equation.

    Maybe that will convince her to quit slacking off and to train harder
    She could care less what I think. She's already said she has "no time" for critics. :chorus:


    But why the sudden change of heart about Alissa?
    She did fall and mess up in the 2nd half of her program like she usually does?
    It's her score though. She still scored 100. Wagner and Nagasu could only dream of that score if they fell twice.


    Actually, I think it is hard to call this. Rachael is not Michelle. She may get a spot due to the sheer medicrity of the field and not because she is anything more than average herself.
    There is no front-runner, but Flatt has been *very* consistent at US Nationals and if the skating is anything like it was tonight (or even at SA) she's in, no question.

  2. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by krenseby View Post
    I really hope you are wrong on that one. Yes, a great coach may be a good thing to have and is a promising sign for a skater's future, but let's not let this consideration enter into the judging at all.

    Although, I bet when Sasha teamed up with Tarasova, it gave her tremendous clout. Though, this doesn't seem to be the case with the young Asada!
    Sasha lived and breathed skating with Tarasova. Mao divides her time, thus making it harder, considering how much technical content Mao was trying to work on.

  3. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by krenseby View Post
    I really hope you are wrong on that one. Yes, a great coach may be a good thing to have and is a promising sign for a skater's future, but let's not let this consideration enter into the judging at all.

    Although, I bet when Sasha teamed up with Tarasova, it gave her tremendous clout. Though, this doesn't seem to be the case with the young Asada!
    Yes, I agree and the skater still has to perform.
    I just see more talent - athletic talent in Mirai than the others. Between now and Natls Carrol may be able to figure out a way for her to show a little more where she was weak tonight. Mirai;s jumps, when clean look better than Ashley or Rachael. They are higher and cover more distance.

    I still think at 16 there should be no rush on skaters. Ashley is 18, Racahel is 17. Maybe it is there time.
    I doubt either of them has the talent to become a world champion. I think Mirai does.
    Last edited by janetfan; 11-21-2009 at 10:04 PM.

  4. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by krenseby View Post
    whole post
    We may have to agree to disagree...

    One by one:

    I disagree with your switch. Wagner has had a breakout season so she's been getting more hype than Rachael, whose breakout season was perhaps some time in the past. What's shiny and new always gets the most attention.
    She definitely has come out. And I will say that if she can keep up the momentum she has a good shot at the US title. BUT- she just hasn't shown me that she is consistent enough to be considered a solid contender, plus she is untested under pressure (unlike Flatt, who is).

    Second, Wagner made the GPF and if she does well there, that would mean that she racks up three great performances in a row, whereas as Rachael's only noteworthy accomplishment was at Skate America. Again, more accomplishments, more hype.
    Placing ahead of a lackluster Yuna Kim in the FS is not exactly a "yeah, whatever" situation imo. Granted, she [Flatt] probably did the best she could, and whether she could improve upon THAT has yet to be seen. I mean the following with all due respect to Wagner, but she made the GPF because a) she had easier events and b) her competitors (including the mighty Mao) all had off nights, which got her in the Final with just ok scores. We've yet to see how she does at the GPF...if she has a rough go there, it's not going to look so good for her any more...OTOH, if she holds her own, she will definitely be at an advantage should it come to a close decision for the Oly team.


    As for Czisny, I don't know what the Nationals judges will think of her. She's done so bad at Worlds last year that they may just want her to be rewarded justly for her skate but not have her make the Olympics team.
    Actually, that's a valid point. But if she places top two, I don't think they would leave her off the team unless the following scenario occurs:

    1) she's 2nd
    2) Wagner is 3rd, behind Czisny by less than a point
    3) Wagner medals at the GPF.

  5. #335
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    Are you forgetting this fact:

    US judges have already given Mirai a Senior National title. They have passed up Rachael twice.

  6. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    In China Mirai outperformed Joannie and had much bigger crowd responses to both programs. In fact she was the favorite with the Chinese audience

    I wonder if something was bugging her tonight. She was very flat
    I suspect she was worried about the UR and was focusing on correcting that. That's why she had no expression in her skating. She is still young and learning to combine the technical elements with the presentation.

  7. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Overall, Mirai showed some progress tonight. I think she can get her smile back but what good is that if she continued with so many downgrades.

    BTW, I am sure Carroll is grooming Mirai for 2014. He knows she isn;t ready to win at the biggest events yet.A few of her jumps were as good as any I saw tonight.
    That's exactly right. Mirai will peak in 2013-2014. If she makes the US Olympic team, it will be a good experience for her. If she does not make the team, it's no big deal.

  8. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Are you forgetting this fact:

    US judges have already given Mirai a Senior National title. They have passed up Rachael twice.
    Mirai deserved the 2008 title.

    The 2009 title is more debatable...it could have gone to either but the margin of victory for Czisny should have been MUCH closer. If it was being judged by ISU judges rather than USFS ones, I can't help but wonder if Flatt would have won if the skating was exactly the same...
    Last edited by R.D.; 11-21-2009 at 10:16 PM. Reason: clarify my point.

  9. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I suspect she was worried about the UR and was focusing on correcting that. That's why she had no expression in her skating. She is still young and learning to combine the technical elements with the presentation.
    Mirai alos looked very disappointed after her skate tonight. I don't mind that as it shows a drive to succeed.

    I wonder if she was sick or if there was a personal problem? Or maybe she is a "head case"

    Her jumping looked like it was the best tonight. I mean Joannie and Laura did alot of doubles and Mirai atleast went for triples.

    But her program did seem empty in places.

    I think US judges will consider how much faster Mirai skates than Rachael, Ashley and Alissa.

    It is just something to think about - which of these girls could be world champion in 2-3 years.
    Last edited by janetfan; 11-21-2009 at 10:13 PM.

  10. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    Mirai deserved the 2008 title.

    The 2009 title is more debatable...it could have gone to either but the margin of victory for Czisny should have been MUCH closer. If it was an international event, I can't help but wonder if Flatt would have won if the skating was exactly the same...
    Good points - but Natls is not an international event,

  11. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Good points - but Natls is not an international event,
    I should have said "if international judges were judging the event". I'll modify my post because that's really what I meant- Thanks for catching that.

  12. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    I should have said "if international judges were judging the event". I'll modify my post because that's really what I meant- Thanks for catching that.
    OK, but I wasn't being a smart azz.

    I wonder what US judges will be looking for?
    All this talk that Rachael may quit to go to college should not be held against her - but if it is close, why not take a Frank carroll girl who will be around to challenge for the title in a couple of years?

    And Rachael just seems limited - I don't think she will get much better. Actually she has not gotten better this year from what I see.

  13. #343
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    I think that the kind of PCS that Akiko received here would negatively affect her chance to go to the Olympics. Now it seems that Yukari has the edge. Akiko is even worse than Fumie because Fumie typically receives good PCS at Nationals.

  14. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    OK, but I wasn't being a smart azz.

    I wonder what US judges will be looking for?
    All this talk that Rachael may quit to go to college should not be held against her - but if it is close, why not take a Frank carroll girl who will be around to challenge for the title in a couple of years?

    And Rachael just seems limited - I don't think she will get much better. Actually she has not gotten better this year from what I see.
    The US is thinking about the now and the tradition. If the US thought about the future, they wouldn't have been milking the crap out of Sasha and Michelle's careers but rather focusing on making sure their skaters are up to international standards. I stand by my opinion that the National team should be taken more seriously. The US should make like Canada and Japan, hold test comps in the summer and watch over the progress of their skaters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    I think that the kind of PCS that Akiko received here would negatively affect her chance to go to the Olympics. Now it seems that Yukari has the edge. Akiko is even worse than Fumie because Fumie typically receives good PCS at Nationals.
    Well, let's wait and see how she does at GPF. If she finishes better than Miki there, Akiko goes to the Olympics. And if she does well there, her PCS will be boosted a bit, hopefully....


    I sometimes just wonder, what if Akiko beats Miki at GPF and gets one spot, and then Yukari/Fumie has a performance of her life to win at Nationals and gets second spot, then who is going to be the third one? Miki? Or Mao? (It's not really likely to happen though. ) Oh then things gonna be re~~~ally interesting.
    Last edited by gourry; 11-21-2009 at 10:27 PM.

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