Ladies Free Program 19:00 pm Eastern Time Saturday, November 21

[Blades of Passion]

This particular comment sounds to me like Caroline is sniping more at herself and her failed strategy than at the judges. No?

It's not about who she is angry with. It's the level of bitterness and flippancy. We've seen it in the K+C with her several times before.

Compare to Mirai, who gets bad scores and says "I can't wait to do better". In the video between the two of them, also look at how warm Mirai is. She takes it upon herself to hug Caroline (even though she was facing her own disappointing score).

You see these qualities in their performances too. Mirai skates with spark and heart. Caroline skates with a "I'm doing this so you think I'm great" kind of attitude.

[Bennett]

Laura is landing far too close to the barriers at times.

Perhaps because of the smaller rink size?

I loved her program and she is a beautiful performer. But those jumps and those scores....

Joannie's program was nice, but she looked better last season. I do not think that she became that music yet.

I also do not like her costume. She looks better in a costume that more fully covers her body. I do not think that the design goes well with her body type.

It is interesting that she scored a lot lower before the last year's breakthrough. But now they give the reputation score even when she demonstrates the previous inconsistency.

[Mathman]

I deleted my entry as I wasn't sure if it was by the same judge...

Yes. Judge number eight is always judge number eight.

[Nadia01]

I'm totally confused.

How come Joannie got 9 or more on her PCS? What am I not seeing here?

[hikki]

Yes. Judge number eight is always judge number eight.

Thanks for the clarification. So it's as if he'd given 5.6 (=9.25x0.6) to Joannie and 3.5 (=5.75x0.6) to Mirai for Presentation under the 6.0 system . I mean we're talking 2 completely different systems but if we simply weigh the 10-point max CoP points to the 6.0, effectively it's like that, isn't it? I was bad at math in high school.

That's some gap. That's like saying Joannie is an A class senior skater and Mirai is a skater who wouldn't qualify for a national level competition. Is this really justified?

[Bennett]

actually i checked the protocol again, but didn't seem to see any 9.0 in #8. Judge #7 has 9.0 for CH though. Where would we find that info?

[hikki]

actually i checked the protocol again, but didn't seem to see any 9.0.

Sorry I should've posted the scores that I entered earlier (page 28) to the SP thread, as they are actually from SP. Apologies for the confusion.

In the LP however there is one 9.0, from Judge # 7.

[Bennett]

Oh, thanks for clarification.

Anyway, I sure see that the judges at this comp are using the full scale. I wonder if the judges here are acting rather deviantly or this is consistent with the recent trend that works as a prelude to the Olympics.

[cornell08]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEpXfugukE

candid backstage exchange between Mirai and Caroline after their freeskate...its slightly heartbreaking but also very sweet.

[prettykeys]

When the judge #8 watched joannie's performance
he/she must have thought like this ;

" Oh~ Mind-boggling. I ve' never seen a single skater skate to the music
as well as that. Her jumps are so difficult, almost impossible, brilliant,
elegant the step sequence, she hit every beat of the music.
Brilliant program, superb choreography! What a feel she has. just amazing."

LOL! In a British accent, no doubt.

[prettykeys]

I deleted my entry as I wasn't sure if it was by the same judge. In other words, can we at least tell from the protocols what one judge has given to different skaters or is it 'concealed' too?

Either way, those scores do stand out in a bad bad way.

I love doing that. I've once seen the opposite of what you pointed out here--a judge who scored fairly evenly with the other judges for almost all the skaters, but then the scores took a nosedive when it came to a particular skater.

It's definitely blatant when a single judge's score differs by 1.0 point or more in the PCS relative to the average, or more than 1.5 between individual judges.

For instance, why did Judge #8 give Joannie 9.25 for Choreography, when two other judges gave her 7.25? That's a 2.0 point variance. And then this same judge marks Alissa, giving her some of the lowest PCS scores. Very suspicious, indeed.

Disclaimer: I am not knocking Canada or Joannie at all. I'm just saying that that should not happen.

[623]

For instance, why did Judge #8 give Joannie 9.25 for Choreography, when two other judges gave her 7.25? That's a 2.0 point variance. And then this same judge marks Alissa, giving her some of the lowest PCS scores. Very suspicious, indeed.

Disclaimer: I am not knocking Canada or Joannie at all. I'm just saying that that should not happen.

But why not? Isn't that a reason why we have a few judges, not just one?
PCS and even GOE is very subjective and we want to know the opinions of as many judges as possible and take the average of them into the final score.
I'm always worried when PCS is too similar across the board. Especially when I don't see how it reflect what happens on the ice. In that case I got an impressions that judges do reputation judging.
But when the score differ significantly I always think that this means that we have judges with many different tastes and who are looking for different things in the skating and that is a good thing.
I can easily imagine a judge giving Joannie let's say 6.0 for choreography and another one thinking that it deserves 9.25. Thay are all numbers after all and do not carry any definite value when it comes to figure skating.

[prettykeys]

But why not? Isn't that a reason why we have a few judges, not just one?
PCS and even GOE is very subjective and we want to know the opinions of as many judges as possible and take the average of them into the final score.
I'm always worried when PCS is too similar across the board. Especially when I don't see how it reflect what happens on the ice. In that case I got an impressions that judges do reputation judging.
But when the score differ significantly I always think that this means that we have judges with many different tastes and who are looking for different things in the skating and that is a good thing.
I can easily imagine a judge giving Joannie let's say 6.0 for choreography and another one thinking that it deserves 9.25. Thay are all numbers after all and do not carry any definite value when it comes to figure skating.

The whole purpose of CoP is that that kind of variance of "taste" scores should not happen to a large extent; it is supposed to be a little more objective. Judges shouldn't be "looking for different things"; they should be open-minded as far as styles go but looking for the same indicators of quality.

I would find it a huge problem if a score like 6.0 was given for a PC and then another judge gave 9.25. One of these judges is extremely incompetent...or worse.

[katakwan]

The whole purpose of CoP is that that kind of variance of "taste" scores should not happen to a large extent; it is supposed to be a little more objective. Judges shouldn't be "looking for different things"; they should be open-minded as far as styles go but looking for the same indicators of quality.

I would find it a huge problem if a score like 6.0 was given for a PC and then another judge gave 9.25. One of these judges is extremely incompetent...or worse.

I was just wondering if you were a sage, were't you?

[silverlake22]

Hey I have a question. I've been thinking about the US ladies situation over and over in my head, and I was just wondering if anyone knows the last time Alissa put up a good short AND long program at a competition? (and when I say good, I mean really good for her, not like her LP at nats last year or her LP last night or at COR). I really think she is in good standing to go to the Olympics but it always she either bombs the short and does a great LP or does a great SP and then delivers a freeskate with a fall or two and a few downgraded jumps. Recently, she's been falling less, often times just once or twice instead of her standard 2 or 3 from a few years ago, but the downgrades still worry me, It seems as though she is so preoccupied with landing her jumps that she tries to control them too much, resulting in smaller jumps that are given negative GOEs or UR calls or both. I wish she'd attack the jumps with more speed and power, but I feel like she's too afraid she'll fall down if she does this. Maybe she just doesn't have that much power anyways? She does not have the same muscular body type as many of the lady power jumpers