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Thread: Ladies Free Program 19:00 pm Eastern Time Saturday, November 21

  1. #556
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    Ok so Laura landed 3 clean triples, but didn't attempt any more than 3 triples. Joannie landed 3 clean triples, 1 really messed up hand down triple (not marked as UR but sure looked like it to me) and a stepped out of another triple , Alissa landed 3 clean triples and 1 UR triple and fell twice, and Mirai landed 5 clean triples with no falls. Mirai also has great spins and speed and footwork, so is it REALLY fair that she missed the podium given how the other skaters above her delivered? I don't think so
    Lepisto landed 3 triples, but only ONE was clean (the 3Lo in combination). Everything else was doubles. But she did have two L4 spins and one L3, and got high +GOE for her layback.

    Rochette landed 3 clean triples (the initial lutz, and the 3T^3S sequence). She doubled the second lutz and the second salchow, and took major dings for the landings on the 3F and solo 3Lo. Joannie 3 spins were all L2 and she didn't get much +GOE on them. Her spiral was noticeably wobbly, and was only L3.

    What killed Mirai was her low PCS scores, not her technical content. She was so concentrated on landing her jumps that she forgot about presentation; meanwhile, both Lepisto and Rochette got very high PCS despite Lepisto's easy jump layout and Rochette's multiple errors.

    Both Rochette and Czisny medaled based on their huge SP point cushions. Lepisto medaled over Mirai because Laura got a 5.36 boost in PCS. After all she is the reigning European champion, and there were 6 European judges on the panel.

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    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Lepisto landed 3 triples, but only ONE was clean (the 3Lo in combination). Everything else was doubles. But she did have two L4 spins and one L3, and got high +GOE for her layback.

    Rochette landed 3 clean triples (the initial lutz, and the 3T^3S sequence). She doubled the second lutz and the second salchow, and took major dings for the landings on the 3F and solo 3Lo. Joannie 3 spins were all L2 and she didn't get much +GOE on them. Her spiral was noticeably wobbly, and was only L3.

    What killed Mirai was her low PCS scores, not her technical content. She was so concentrated on landing her jumps that she forgot about presentation; meanwhile, both Lepisto and Rochette got very high PCS despite Lepisto's easy jump layout and Rochette's multiple errors.

    Both Rochette and Czisny medaled based on their huge SP point cushions. Lepisto medaled over Mirai because Laura got a 5.36 boost in PCS. After all she is the reigning European champion, and there were 6 European judges on the panel.
    I actually doubt whatever Mirai did in her presentation would have significantly affected her PCS here. There is nothing she can do about judges liking Euro champ and World Silver medalist.
    Wagner always skates beautifully. She has among the best choreos, programs and costumes. She also has the lines, presentation skills, and puts her heart to the programs. But she just simply doesn't get much pcs possibly due to the reputation and jumps. The same goes with Sarah Meyer.
    Even though Mirai can be a great performer when she tries, I think it was fine for heri to focus on jumps here.
    She just needs to keep landing those jumps and wish for a different set of judges when it really counts. It's not that she can't perform, but she can indeed be a great performer. But the priority now should be jumps. Then judges suddenly start to notice her beautiful qualities in her presentation. But not the other way around.
    Last edited by Bennett; 11-23-2009 at 06:05 PM.

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    I agree. The Canadians (and Europeans to a lesser extent) were gonna be favored anyway.

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    You are right I think, Mirai could have performed with a lot of emotion and it wouldn't have made a difference. Alissa and Caroline skate at about the same speed, what fairly4 said about confidence I think is true, though makes no sense. 16 year old girls have enough self confidence issues as it is, and then Mirai and Caroline have to grow up in the public eye, wearing tiny dresses, and everyone notices that they grow up and look different and skate differently but even though I think they are both becoming very artistic, the judges just destroy them Apparently they think it's more important to keep up the confidence of a 23 year old woman who's engaged to an olympic athelete and has been at the top of the sport for so long than two vulnerable teenagers who probably think awfully of themselves now. In one article, Mirai told a reporter that she thought skating was a burden, but only kept doing it because she wasn't very smart or pretty and wasn't good at anything else. That does not look like healthy self esteem to me, especially because the girl is beautiful and certainly seems smart in her interviews

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    You are right I think, Mirai could have performed with a lot of emotion and it wouldn't have made a difference. Alissa and Caroline skate at about the same speed, what fairly4 said about confidence I think is true, though makes no sense. 16 year old girls have enough self confidence issues as it is, and then Mirai and Caroline have to grow up in the public eye, wearing tiny dresses, and everyone notices that they grow up and look different and skate differently but even though I think they are both becoming very artistic, the judges just destroy them Apparently they think it's more important to keep up the confidence of a 23 year old woman who's engaged to an olympic athelete and has been at the top of the sport for so long than two vulnerable teenagers who probably think awfully of themselves now. In one article, Mirai told a reporter that she thought skating was a burden, but only kept doing it because she wasn't very smart or pretty and wasn't good at anything else. That does not look like healthy self esteem to me, especially because the girl is beautiful and certainly seems smart in her interviews
    While I agree on the issue of blatant overscoring of the favorites, at the same time I don't think the judges owe anyone any "sympathy" points for being "young and vulnerable". That would make skating even more of a joke than it is now. Just follow the rulebook and keep things as they are.

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    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    I actually doubt whatever Mirai did in her presentation would have significantly affected her PCS here. There is nothing she can do about judges liking Euro champ and World Silver medalist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    Wagner always skates beautifully. She has among the best choreos, programs and costumes. She also has the lines, presentation skills, and puts her heart to the programs. But she just simply doesn't get much pcs possibly due to the reputation and jumps. The same goes with Sarah Meyer.
    Even though Mirai can be a great performer when she tries, I think it was fine for heri to focus on jumps here.
    She just needs to keep landing those jumps and wish for a different set of judges when it really counts. It's not that she can't perform, but she can indeed be a great performer. But the priority now should be jumps. Then judges suddenly start to notice her beautiful qualities in her presentation. But not the other way around.
    She was third after the short. If she had given her performance that extra something I don't think the judges could have ignored that. She would have been on the podium. However, you might be right that she needed to concentrate on her jumps. New LP and everything ... maybe it's too much for her to concentrate on everything at the same time. First fix the technical problems ... presentation comes with experience and maturity and just getting comfortable with a program.
    I think Mirai sort of proved herself here a little bit. She hardly knocked it out of the park. But it seemed like in the SP she might have been a litte underscored because she was skating so early in the competition .... (even though you're not supposed to "save scores" under COP) ... then it turned out that nobody could outscore her except Alissa and Joannie. Ha! I think she should be satisfied ... I just hope SHE sees it that way.
    Last edited by Layfan; 11-23-2009 at 07:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    I think they are both becoming very artistic, the judges just destroy them Apparently they think it's more important to keep up the confidence of a 23 year old woman who's engaged to an olympic athelete and has been at the top of the sport for so long than two vulnerable teenagers who probably think awfully of themselves now.
    Who exactly are you talking about here? Joannie? Well first off she isn't engaged and secondly when has she ever been on the top of the sport? She has worked her butt off and struggled through 11th, 8th, 7th, and 5th place finishes at Worlds. Don't put her down just because your favourites aren't doing as well as you would like.

    Since when are the judges supposed to care for about the skaters feelings or confidence?

    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    In one article, Mirai told a reporter that she thought skating was a burden, but only kept doing it because she wasn't very smart or pretty and wasn't good at anything else. That does not look like healthy self esteem to me, especially because the girl is beautiful and certainly seems smart in her interviews
    If she said this than this is a self esteem issue that her and her family need to address. It sounds to me that Mirai really doesn't even like to skate and that her parents need to step in. It isn't the judges responsbility to worry about them.

    Weren't you wanting lower age limits before? This just goes to show how vulnerable young girls can be - imagine if she was experiencing this at 13.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan View Post
    [B]
    I think Mirai sort of proved herself here a little bit. She hardly knocked it out of the park. But it seemed like in the SP she might have been a litte underscored because she was skating so early in the competition .... (even though you're not supposed to "save scores" under COP) ... then it turned out that nobody could outscore her except Alissa and Joannie. Ha! I think she should be satisfied ... I just hope SHE sees it that way.
    I forgot she skated so early, I think you have a point. I think it was fair that she was below Alissa and Joannie, but I don't think she deserved to be 8 points below Alissa, a couple points would have been sufficient given that they did the same jumps and Mirai has faster skating and more height in the jumps, but falls a bit short of Alissa presentation and artistry wise. If her SP had been a bit higher, with the same freeskate she would have edged out Lepisto and possibly even Alissa do win silver or bronze. I guess it doesn't matter too much though, and in the interview she at least seemed to make the best of the situation, though she was clearly upset. The nationals judges (hopefully) won't be as biased, I think she has a good shot at making the team. At this point does anyone see any contenders for the US ladies olympic team other than Rachael, Ashley, Alissa, and Mirai?

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    At this point does anyone see any contenders for the US ladies olympic team other than Rachael, Ashley, Alissa, and Mirai?
    No.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fairly4 View Post
    zhang should sue.... <entire post>
    I'm new to this forum. Is there some kind of "ignore poster" function button?

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    Oh yes. It's a list. You have to go to your User CP section to create it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    At this point does anyone see any contenders for the US ladies olympic team other than Rachael, Ashley, Alissa, and Mirai?
    Well, I believe in miracles, so yes. (Look at my avatar.)
    And I really don't see Alissa as a contender. I really hope she doesn't make the team. As pretty as her skating is, I can't stand the slowness this year. It's a big year - I want to see people fight for those medals!

    Most likely it will be Rachael and Ashley, but my dream team would be Sasha and Mirai... or Ashley in place of either one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    Well, I believe in miracles, so yes. (Look at my avatar.)
    And I really don't see Alissa as a contender. I really hope she doesn't make the team. As pretty as her skating is, I can't stand the slowness this year. It's a big year - I want to see people fight for those medals!
    I personally don't really want Czisny on the team either but not for the same reasons. I don't want her on because she's proved time and time again she cannot handle the pressure of a Major event. If a US Lady MUST lay an egg at the Olympics let someone else get that chance...:chorus:

    ETA: I should point out that I mean this with all due respect to team Czisny. If she earns top 2 at Nats fair and square I'll continue to fully support our team if they decide to send her.

    Most likely it will be Rachael and Ashley...
    Too soon to tell, especially with the GPF not having taken place yet (and more importantly, US Nats!) I still think the field is wide open. Flatt has the best chance, but it's far from a done deal. Depending on the night it could be either Czisny or Wagner or Nagasu that joins her. (I personally think Zhang has regressed too far to be in serious contention unless there are meltdowns from two or more of the above.) If Flatt has an off-night, she could be easily surpassed by any of the other three IF they skate to their potential.

    It's tempting to look at the GP and try to make predictions based on that but it's tough. Skaters aren't looking to peak during this time and a LOT can change between now and then. Remember when Flatt/Zhang seemed like all but a sure thing? Fast forward a couple of months later to now. And then fast forward a couple of months to January...

    ETA: The more I think about it, the more I hope for Wagner to make the team. But practicality beats sentimentality ANY day of the week, and when it's all said and done, I want our strongest team in Canada, whether or not it includes her.
    Last edited by R.D.; 11-24-2009 at 01:51 AM.

  14. #569
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    I forgot she skated so early, I think you have a point. I think it was fair that she was below Alissa and Joannie, but I don't think she deserved to be 8 points below Alissa, a couple points would have been sufficient given that they did the same jumps and Mirai has faster skating and more height in the jumps, but falls a bit short of Alissa presentation and artistry wise. If her SP had been a bit higher, with the same freeskate she would have edged out Lepisto and possibly even Alissa do win silver or bronze. I guess it doesn't matter too much though, and in the interview she at least seemed to make the best of the situation, though she was clearly upset. The nationals judges (hopefully) won't be as biased, I think she has a good shot at making the team. At this point does anyone see any contenders for the US ladies olympic team other than Rachael, Ashley, Alissa, and Mirai?
    I agree that the effects of her URs last season were perhaps still triggering here. I agree that skating so early perhaps affected her scores, just as Akiko being new also might have.

    It seems to me that Rachael has the greatest chance and that Mirai and Ashley are even right now, with Mirai prone to UR and Ashley prone to edge calls. If both skate clean, they are better than Rachael. If both Mirai and Ashley both rotate jumps, Mirai may be better because I don't think that Ashley can fix her edge anytime soon whereas Mirai's flutz may be less serious. But point-wise, Mirai's URs are far costly than Ashley's edge calls. So perhaps Rachael and Ashley may be the ones.

    Alissa is possibly the greatest if she skates clean, but this may not happen at Nationals.

  15. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    I agree that the effects of her URs last season were perhaps still triggering here. I agree that skating so early perhaps affected her scores, just as Akiko being new also might have.

    It seems to me that Rachael has the greatest chance and that Mirai and Ashley are even right now, with Mirai prone to UR and Ashley prone to edge calls. If both skate clean, they are better than Rachael. If both Mirai and Ashley both rotate jumps, Mirai may be better because I don't think that Ashley can fix her edge anytime soon whereas Mirai's flutz may be less serious. But point-wise, Mirai's URs are far costly than Ashley's edge calls. So perhaps Rachael and Ashley may be the ones.

    Alissa is possibly the greatest if she skates clean, but this may not happen at Nationals.

    why on Earth would you predict that?


    At this point does anyone see any contenders for the US ladies olympic team other than Rachael, Ashley, Alissa, and Mirai?
    Nope. Although ... there's always .... nah, let just not go there.
    I personally don't really want Czisny on the team either but not for the same reasons. I don't want her on because she's proved time and time again she cannot handle the pressure of a Major event. If a US Lady MUST lay an egg at the Olympics let someone else get that chance...
    I just can't help it. I want it so badly for Alissa. At least with her on the team we know we'll have one American performance that won't be "meh." It'll either be an "egg" or beautiful.

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