Plushenko v. Abbott - Compare and Contrast

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 22, 2009

Both these guys got a gold medal in the GP series but unfortunately, they will not meet in the Finals. But it's pretty certain they will meet in Vancouver next year.

Their styles of figure skating are, for me, absolute polar. There are other great contestants whose style fall between the 2 opposite polar guys.

Can you discuss which of the styles of Evgeni (bravuro) or Jeremy (lyrical) will get the most applause given they both skate their best?

Mathman · Nov 22, 2009

To me, it depends on whether we view figure skating as sport or performance art.

If sport, Plushenko wins hands down. If performance art, its Jeremy.

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 22, 2009

Mathman said:
To me, it depends on whether we view figure skating as sport or performance art.

If sport, Plushenko wins hands down. If performance art, its Jeremy.

Appreciate your reply but I was looking more towards a win in the PC only. it could also be that it is difficult to separate from the Technical.

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 22, 2009

Joesitz said:
Appreciate your reply but I was looking more towards a win in the PC only. it could also be that it is difficult to separate from the Technical.

I should also state that this is a preference thread. Both skaters performing at their best. All the Tech is perfect, and nothing to do with scores.

evangeline · Nov 22, 2009

Joesitz said:
Can you discuss which of the styles of Evgeni (bravuro) or Jeremy (lyrical) will get the most applause given they both skate their best?

Well....I would say a lot of it depends on where the event is being held. If it's Russia--Evgeni. If it's in the States (and perhaps Canada?), then Jeremy.

I find that audience appreciation can be extremely partisan....

Nadine · Nov 22, 2009

Joesitz said:
Both these guys got a gold medal in the GP series but unfortunately, they will not meet in the Finals. But it's pretty certain they will meet in Vancouver next year.

Their styles of figure skating are, for me, absolute polar. There are other great contestants whose style fall between the 2 opposite polar guys.

Can you discuss which of the styles of Evgeni (bravuro) or Jeremy (lyrical) will get the most applause given they both skate their best?

Ah, Joesitz, my old nemesis.

Lol, it's honestly good to see you back & healthy, I thought you were dead, glad to see otherwise. :love:

Seriously, that's no joke. I hope your stenosis holds up.

Back to your question, I say look toward the 1994 Olympics between G&G (lyrical) and M&D (bravura) for the answer to your question, that should give you a clue, *but* not everything. That was between two Russians, after all.

That said, I just want to say that people underestimate Evgeni Plushenko, he honestly is more than just about the jumps. Just go back & look at his old programs (I did & do).

In particular I loooooved his Once Upon A Time in America FS that he did when he was only 18 yrs. old. Ahhhh....

ImaginaryPogue · Nov 22, 2009

Plushenko would win the PCS.

The thing with Jeremy is that at his best, he's still not an outward skater like Plushenko. His command of the ice is different - more about the skating, less about the attitude would be one way of putting it. Plushenko's more aggressive, outward and confident, and I think that would translate to the PCS scores - particularly in presentation, skating skills and interpretation. If the judging was fair, Abbott would win the other two marks: his choreography and transitions are stronger.

Personally, I'd go with Abbott 7 times out of 10.

Blades of Passion · Nov 22, 2009

Interpretation? That definitely goes to Abbott.

Plushenko is stronger in terms of the performance/execution mark. He always presents himself as being in control of everything.

He might be a little stronger in Skating Skills as well, but not by much.

plushyta · Nov 22, 2009

I do not understand, why is Plushy's "way of interpretation", less valuable than others? :scratch: Here is talk about the different tastes, or... what?

We can talk about the quality of its choreography

.... but for now - this is not a competition of choreographer - than the skaters :laugh:

Blades of Passion said:
... Plushenko is stronger in terms of the performance/execution mark. He always presents himself ....

... even, he is the "honest" :biggrin:

In any case - the best actors looking "inside self" a character which acting - see just De Niro, Al Pacino...

jennylovskt · Nov 22, 2009

I don't think it's easy to compare these two. First, Plushenko is the king of the jumps but he is not only that. He can be very dramatic and artistic. Second, Plushenko did not skate his best at Rostelecom. He has focused on his jumps and proved that he is back. I am hoping that he is working on his choreography right now as well.

Abbott is a lyrical, classical skater. His skating is beautiful and yet he has managed to have a successful quad jump this time. Unfortunately, his quad jump's successful rate is not high so far. He still didn't have a clean LP this time. So it's not easy for him to stay on the top.

I think Plushenko is a clear winner everywhere. In a sense, I think MM sumed it up. It's an athleticism and artistry combined sport, not a performing art.

To me, I enjoy Abbott's skating. He can take me to a dreaming world where everything is so beautiful. But Plushenko's skating could grab my heart, make me hold my breath, and keep me on the edge of my seat. Which one I like better? Depends on my mood

. Most of the time, I like Plushenko better.

Spun Silver · Nov 22, 2009

I can't imagine Abbott beating Plushenko in a showdown unless Plushenko's hurt or collapses. I think Plushenko will understand that he's up against a bunch of artistes and will find a way to turn on the charm. And that's all it will take for the current quad king to win on PCS.

OK, I'll admit it. I read the rumors that Evgeny is practicing a 4-3-3 and I'm quaking with dread. And so, IMO, will be everyone who has to face him in February. The only one who I think has a champion's heart like Plushenko's (as well as OGM skills) is Dai, and we don't know yet how far his comeback can go. (But it's looking pretty good, thank God and knock on wood!)

psycho · Nov 22, 2009

The way I see it, Plushenko is a freaking skating god. Who the hell is Abbott? Some guy that can't make the top ten at worlds.

And although Plushenko's presentation style of today is not my favourite of all men out there ( and I blame that largely on the stupid system, 6.0 Plushy was creative and arttistic) , he is still interesting to watch and brings a lot of excitement to competition. Abbott is dull as dishwater and a perfect fridgebreak, imho.

Spun Silver · Nov 22, 2009

psycho said:
The way I see it, Plushenko is a freaking skating god. Who the hell is Abbott? Some guy that can't make the top ten at worlds.

And although Plushenko's presentation style of today is not my favourite of all men out there ( and I blame that largely on the stupid system, 6.0 Plushy was creative and arttistic) , he is still interesting to watch and brings a lot of excitement to competition. Abbott is dull as dishwater and a perfect fridgebreak, imho.

Could you make that a little clearer? Your point is getting lost in all the tact. :chorus:

Buttercup · Nov 23, 2009

Spun Silver said:
OK, I'll admit it. I read the rumors that Evgeny is practicing a 4-3-3 and I'm quaking with dread. And so, IMO, will be everyone who has to face him in February. The only one who I think has a champion's heart like Plushenko's (as well as OGM skills) is Dai, and we don't know yet how far his comeback can go. (But it's looking pretty good, thank God and knock on wood!)

I'm not sure what a champion's heart means to you, but to me it implies shining when it truly counts. While I think Takahashi is a marvelous skater, if he has a champion's heart... where are all his championships? He's in his seventh senior season! A skater with that much talent should have a lot more to show for it by now.

I don't buy that only Plushenko and Takahashi have OGM skills, either. I think there are a bunch of guys who could win in Vancouver on merit, and it will come down to who doesn't get freaked out by those Olympic rings.

As for the actual subject of this thread: if both Abbott and Plushenko go clean with more or less their planned content, Abbott should, IMO, get higher PCS on TR, CH, and IN. SS could go either way and P&E to Plushenko. I'm referring to Plushenko's current programs, not some of the stuff he did in the past - which would probably merit higher PCS. I'm guessing Plushenko would have a higher base mark, while Jeremy might do better on GOEs. It would really come down to what the judges prefer.

Can we play this game with other skaters vs. Plushenko?

seniorita · Nov 23, 2009

Joesitz said:
Can you discuss which of the styles of Evgeni (bravuro) or Jeremy (lyrical) will get the most applause given they both skate their best?

Two athletes had the skate of their life, I would applause both the same.

Why do we have to measure the emotions by the applause? Skaters can generate various feelings to each and every one in the audience while they are competing. It is totally subjective which one you would enjoy more even if they both skated their best ever. It is nice to have two opposite poles, it makes the earth go round.

Can we play this game with other skaters vs. Plushenko?

I dont think this is a good idea. Any skater vs only Plushenko implies a certain message. Unless you think Plushenko is the one to beat, which frankly I even dont so far. :laugh:

shine · Nov 23, 2009

I can write an essay gushing about Jeremy Abbott's skating........I find his LP a true work of art and his commitment to choreography and music never ceases to amaze me. I'm just in awe of everything he does.....
Can't say the same for Plushy.

gracefulswan · Nov 23, 2009

psycho said:
The way I see it, Plushenko is a freaking skating god. Who the hell is Abbott? Some guy that can't make the top ten at worlds.

And although Plushenko's presentation style of today is not my favourite of all men out there ( and I blame that largely on the stupid system, 6.0 Plushy was creative and arttistic) , he is still interesting to watch and brings a lot of excitement to competition. Abbott is dull as dishwater and a perfect fridgebreak, imho.

Dull as dishwater is pretty abt for Abbott.... Seriously. Just saw his long and it was such a bore.... The music is some very nondescript sound... and his projection and charisma was just not there. Actually, now I appreciate Plushenko more after seeing Abbott's inward, "quiet" style, or whatever you call it. Meh, to each his own.....

Spun Silver · Nov 23, 2009

Buttercup said:
I'm not sure what a champion's heart means to you, but to me it implies shining when it truly counts. While I think Takahashi is a marvelous skater, if he has a champion's heart... where are all his championships? He's in his seventh senior season! A skater with that much talent should have a lot more to show for it by now.

Good point. I see the heart in his drive to push himself both artistically and technically and his determination not to let anything stop him. Every time he's quoted in an interview it comes across to me. But you're right, he's not quite a champion as yet when it comes to gold medals.

Layfan · Nov 23, 2009

Spun Silver said:
Could you make that a little clearer? Your point is getting lost in all the tact. :chorus:

:chorus: Seriously, tell us what you really think, Psycho :chorus: Also, what's a "fridgebreak?"

The only one who I think has a champion's heart like Plushenko's (as well as OGM skills) is Dai, and we don't know yet how far his comeback can go. (But it's looking pretty good, thank God and knock on wood!)

Poor, underestimated Evan...

Milas · Nov 23, 2009

We're talking "style" here - sure I can enjoy the "quite" inward quality to Abbott's style, but it's not a style that grabs me every single time, whereas I enjoy the excitment of Plush's more outward and confident "in your face", style, more often. Truth is, I have to be in a certain mood to fully enjoy Abbott, or he'll just end up annoying, frustrate and bore me to death - and at other times, his skating is perfetcly fine with me...like when I'm drunk because then I'm happy regardless of what they show on the ice. I think much of it has to do with Abbott's uncanny ability to interpret human zambonis, which is frustrating to no end.

Now if we talk about transitions and choreography then Abbott's got the edge, whereas Plush has got the edge on the other areas of the PCs.

gracefulswan said:
Dull as dishwater is pretty abt for Abbott.... Seriously. Just saw his long and it was such a bore.... The music is some very nondescript sound... and his projection and charisma was just not there. Actually, now I appreciate Plushenko more after seeing Abbott's inward, "quiet" style, or whatever you call it. Meh, to each his own.....

Sadly, Abbott isn't particularly charismatic and sometimes he sort of melts into the background - in a sort of "where's Wally?" or Waldo, way.

Plushenko v. Abbott - Compare and Contrast

Joesitz (RIP)

Mathman

Joesitz (RIP)

Joesitz (RIP)

evangeline

Nadine

ImaginaryPogue

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

plushyta

jennylovskt

Spun Silver

psycho

Spun Silver

Buttercup

seniorita

shine

gracefulswan

Spun Silver

Layfan

Milas

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