Last edited by jcoates; 11-29-2009 at 12:39 AM. Reason: new info added
I, like many indians enjoyed D/W 's OD, it is quite different from all the eastern european dances and all the Flamencos. But the problem with the dance is they are bending so many rules, that it does look they are broken the whole concept of OD.
If you show this dance to any indian (born and grown up in India ), they will enjoy it and consider it as a tribute to Bollywood. but don't tell details like it is meant to be a Indian folk dance, and the dance they are performing is Kathak. Then like me, they will have very serious reservation about the dance.
As for bending the rules, they could have taken music that a Kathak dancer dance to (a hindustani music piece perhaps), even if they wanted to do a bollywood song use from Pakeeza or Umrao Jaan. Instead they went for popular alternative. The first song that D/W are skating to is probably inspired by Kathak, other two are not, infact last song was heavily influenced by Odissi (another of Indian classical dances).
Costumes are good and look very Indian, but they are not very kathak costumes. When others are sticking to mostly authentic costume (which mostly sores ur eye), she is wearing sexy costume. but may be she should wear it to a wedding not while doing Kathak dance.
I know it is difficult to bring kathak moves to ice, but not this difficult that the entire dance has lost its essence and have become something else. Moves of this dance are more like what my friends used to tease me when they hear bollywood.
Ultimately to Igor and Marina, they are enough houses (Gharannas) of the Kathak i don't think u need to make another one.
I think Domnina was clear that the costume will be true to the dance, i personally don't think aborigines wear feathers, may be i could tell u first hand accord by the middle of next year when i move to Australia. As for D/S, i have liked them since i saw their world junior dance in way back 2003 (i think), i prefer their dancing style, their extension to other dancers.I'm personally dreading the Aboriginal dance.What sort of aborigine are they depicting? Is it Australian? Or is "Aborigine" meant to be taken in a more generic way, which would give them more leeway.This couple has never impressed me as being particularly artistic or creative.( Or tasteful, for that matter, but I know not everyone will agree..) So I don't have a lot of confidence in how they'll handle the problems inherent in their choice...What sort of costumes will they wear? Nude body suits with a few bits of grass and feathers ?
Again as i have been clear through out the post i am not russian or from that part of the world , but i prefer russian D/S the most...again saying that i never got G/G in pairs, and could well explain why i prefer D/S over Zueva group.
By ur own argument this could be ignored. personally would like to see what they do with the dance as i know it this is a very slow dance.If Australian aborigines, men and women are not known to dance together much, yet ice dancers should be in close contact much of the time, so...???
P.S English is not my third language, so i hope i haven't made enough mistake to make it look like another language.
Last edited by Hsuhs; 11-29-2009 at 03:05 PM.
gee, life684 , I don't expect we're ever going to reach total agreement , but then variety is the spice of life. I've never been very impressed with the DomShabs. Obviously, they must be very good skaters to be where they are , but I'm afraid I find them esthetically boring. I don't see any really great 'line' in their skating and it seems to me their legs are seldom matched. Their programs often leave me with the impression of a wild race from one highlight to the next. Some of those highlights may be very attractive , but I don't find the whole experience very satisfying.
We're just at opposing ends of the spectrum, because all I can say about G&G , and Zueva's choreographic skill is....exquisite.
So, leaving all that aside...It's true that these ODs are interpretations of folk or country dances, otherwise not much skating would get done. Just as in a ballet there are character dances depicting folk or national dances..but it's still ballet.
I was being a bit facetious with the reference to grass and feathers , although there could be some. Actually, and this could be worse..the main component of Australian aboriginal costume is designs painted on the body..oh, and handprints..frequently on the chest.
The dances have a lot of short bursts of stamping ending in frozen poses, lots of knee wobbling and they often depict animals..emus, kangaroos.. or the hunting of animals..if you look on You Tube right now, you'll find at least 3 versions of a dance enacting a crocodile attacking an unwary fisherman. Women act out gathering plants for healing,etc. and generally use shorter more shuffling steps than the men...I don't know , I don't say it can't be done. I just say it would be very tricky to do well, and I have grave reservations about whether D/S and their choreographers are the ones who can do it.
BTW..bravo to you on your use of your third laguage..I have only one..
I am most interested in seeing this aborigine dance from D/S. I can't imagine how an "authentic" aboriginal dance can be put successfully to ice, but glad to see somebody trying it out. Anybody remember the Duchesnay's 1988 "Jungle Dance" (or whatever they called it--it was actually an FD)? It was done to drumming music, was very different for the times, and IIRC not well received by judges, but like most of the audience, I thought it was a brilliant idea. I think judges these days are more flexible and willing to tolerate some diversity in program concepts. And it's Ice Dance, there's no need to come up with programs fit only for authentic performances in a Museum of Ethnography and Anthropology.
Last edited by bigsisjiejie; 11-29-2009 at 08:46 PM.
I loved K/O's 1999 FD (the jungle one).
Excellent post, bigsisjiejie!
You stated perfectly what I wanted to say to life684, but you did it so much more eloquently than I could have.
life684, I suspect that your displeasure with D/W's OD has more to do with your dislike of D/W themselves since you obviously are giving Dom/Shabs a much looser license to interpret their OD even though none of us have yet to see it.
to bigsisjiejie from me too. I'm glad you mentioned the American country dances as an example ( S/B have another great OD there)..And the Duschenays jungle-themed FD is still memorable today ( their OD that year was, I think,the fabulous and humour filled tango )..well, they did have a top notch choreographer in Christopher Dean..the K/O piece didn't do much for me, then or now.
But obviously life684 knows a lot about Indian dance, and it's hard to distance oneself in a case like that. I'm glad the traditional, stylized facial expressions haven't been accentuated...I'd hate to see another B&B style, over the top expression trend get started..
Re; Duschenays' tango - that's OSP, not OD. I was forgetting evolution...boy, I feel ancient !
Last edited by colleen o'neill; 11-30-2009 at 02:13 AM.
It is really said, if it is a real health issue, and I wish her a speedy recovery.
The "second though" could be something else, because Linichuk has a tendency to make her students to withdraw because of health problem, when it is something terribly wrong, and the "status" of them endangered.
Remember the GPF Final 2008 (belbin/agosto out), and Eurochamps.2008., when Shabalin felt on the CD, becoming 5th in that part, they withdraw....
In this undecided season anything can happen. There are no clear favourites, everything can count, even if you compete in a bit sub-par form.
Domnina-Shabalin was prepared to win OGM since last year, but they couldn't really shine enough to secure everything.
The relatively low points of Belbin/Agosto should make the feeling something need to be done to win later. Very possibly " we just has re-think a few details and understand the judges' wishes. We created a new program. We have a lots of new things, PLEASE, give us NEW (better) points!:"
For that possibility they need to have a break before the next competition.
They have far better chance to beat Davis/White in front of the American judges at the National, than in front of the International judges in the GPF, where it is still an issue, why Davis/White didn't medal at the Worldch. 2009....
I didn't want to be roud, and I really hope it is just a short-termine tooth problem.
And if it is so, I'm terribly sorry, about the things I wrote!!
Last edited by bigdeal; 11-30-2009 at 05:17 AM.
I only commented on D/W dance since many have called it authentically representing Indian culture, Best OD of the year ... blah blah. I just wanted point out some of the serious flaws with the dance.
As for difficulty in bringing Kathak to ice dancing, my guess is it shouldn't be too hard (i am not suggesting it is going to be easy), there are lots of similarities between Kathak and Flamenco .
Domnina and Shabalin at the Junior worlds in 2003 . It is afro - latin dance, but this would be probably closest D/S have done to their present OD.I am most interested in seeing this aborigine dance from D/S. I can't imagine how an "authentic" aboriginal dance can be put successfully to ice, but glad to see somebody trying it out. Anybody remember the Duchesnay's 1988 "Jungle Dance" (or whatever they called it--it was actually an FD)? It was done to drumming music, was very different for the times, and IIRC not well received by judges, but like most of the audience, I thought it was a brilliant idea. I think judges these days are more flexible and willing to tolerate some diversity in program concepts. And it's Ice Dance, there's no need to come up with programs fit only for authentic performances in a Museum of Ethnography and Anthropology.
interestingly many (no person in particular) people have already criticised D/S music selection, dance etc even before anyone have seen the dances. So is that hatred towards D/S?
Last edited by life684; 11-30-2009 at 01:28 PM.
^ Speaking for myself, I'm not exactly criticizing their dance (not having seen it) just expressing my sense of foreboding ,based on past egregious liberties I've seen taken by many teams, D/S included. If handled well it could be wonderful, if not, it could be laughable.
The costumes for that 2003 OD, while suitably demure for juniors, had nothing much to do with their music ( might have added a lot to use an African print fabric ).While OK, the effect of the program wasn't a standout.
But as seniors, they had another African/ Latin fusion OD for 2006 , where again (but in a different way ) costumes and music didn't seem to mesh, unless someone thought that the African influence justified putting her in a nude body suit , then wrapping fringe around her so that every time she turned she looked naked..which would be pretty warped thinking. Whatever the reasoning ,it came across as a cheap ploy to grab attention through titillation. It distracted from their actual skating.
I don't think we can look to either of these programs to project what this OD will be. The music is so different. Aboriginal percussion is far less complicated , and digeridoo ( how could they not feature it?) may be hypnotic, but not too melodic.
We'll just have to wait and see.