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Thread: GPF Ladies Analysis Blog Post

  1. #16
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    good analysis. I like reading thoughtful posts about predictions rather than just listing the favored skaters which read like old fashioned hoping.

    I seldom predict winners but in this case it's got to be YuNa - nitpicking and all.

    Any two others, and I have serious reservations about each one, will do.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by LKR View Post
    How so?
    Well this part in particular:

    I quote: "Kim has substandard positions on her layback, Bielmann, and spiral positions".

    I think her positions in all these cases are solid, the spiral maybe could be more pointed but otherwise it's very fine.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by berrycute View Post
    Well this part in particular:

    I quote: "Kim has substandard positions on her layback, Bielmann, and spiral positions".

    I think her positions in all these cases are solid, the spiral maybe could be more pointed but otherwise it's very fine.
    Perhaps "substandard" was too harsh a word, but I still think her spiral and layback have a ways to go in terms of polished positions. I just looked at her SA SP and actually her Bielmann has become pretty good, but her layback is still too turned in IMO, particularly if you compare hers to someone like Czisny or Cohen, who have that very nicely turned out leg position in that element. Kim's spiral free leg doesn't extend high enough for me and it is not fully straight. Her spiral positions (and I'm mainly talking about the standard spiral) are superior to those of Ando, Leonova, Rochette, Suzuki, and several others, but I don't even think they are comparable to those of Cohen, Nagasu, Zhang, or Kwan and Bobek from years past. So, perhaps substandard is too negative a description, but her spiral positions are by no means brilliant IMO.
    Last edited by LKR; 11-29-2009 at 11:21 PM.

  4. #19
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    well...

    The spiral is not all about a position.
    The speed, edge control and ice coverage are also important factors.
    If you see her spiral live, you will understand what I mean.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by inside edge View Post
    The spiral is not all about a position.
    The speed, edge control and ice coverage are also important factors.
    If you see her spiral live, you will understand what I mean.
    All of this is true, but that's not what's being discussed. Berrycute was objecting to my argument about Kim's positions being substandard, and I was explaining why I felt they were (and again, perhaps "substandard" was too harsh a word). Never did I say in my post that Kim's spirals themselves are substandard, just her positions.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by inside edge View Post
    The spiral is not all about a position.
    The speed, edge control and ice coverage are also important factors.
    If you see her spiral live, you will understand what I mean.
    I don't think you will find it both great position and speed these days. The COP does make it hard to do both. You have skaters like Kim, Kostner who has great speed, edge and ice coverage but so-so position. Others like Zhang, Asada, Cizney have great position and flexibility, but they show how slow down abit and doesn't hold the position long enough. Even, Cohen who fall into the later category is the same. Her spiral sequence at Torino FS, is very slow and barely cover the 1/4 of rink, compare to Shizuka.
    Maybe that's why judges selden award level 4 spiral sequences to ladies.

  7. #22
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    ^
    Not only these days. I think, in general, having both good position and speed is very difficult from the viewpoint of physics and this is why such skaters are so rare. If a skater's leg is higher, so is her center of mass. Then it is harder to keep the balance between the centrifugal force and the gravity, especially when the skater wants to keep fast speed or deep edge. In this sense, it is very difficult to maintain both good position/flexibility and good speed/edge quality.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by steyn View Post
    ^
    Not only these days. I think, in general, having both good position and speed is very difficult from the viewpoint of physics and this is why such skaters are so rare. If a skater's leg is higher, so is her center of mass. Then it is harder to keep the balance between the centrifugal force and the gravity, especially when the skater wants to keep fast speed or deep edge. In this sense, it is very difficult to maintain both good position/flexibility and good speed/edge quality.
    What about Mirai though? She has great spiral positions and she at least skates fast during her program, and I do not notice that her spiral sequence moves particularly slowly. The same goes for Mao. Caroline and Alissa are very slow skaters in general and Sasha was a little slow too. Yu Na's spirals are all very good except her arabesque one which just looks a little awkward from the side angle

  9. #24
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    right!

    Mirai's spin and spiral

  10. #25
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    Calling YuNa the "Roger Federer of ladies figure skating" is "harsh", eh?

    LKR, you had good, fair comments, I thought.

    Although I have a hard time thinking of any athlete comparable to Federer in their respective sports...maybe Michael Jordan back in the day.

  11. #26
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    It does remain to be seen if Yuna can handle the pressure of the Olys. she has the CAPABILITY of winning Gold in a landslide but as SA proved, as long as she's not too far ahead in the SP, other skaters can make up the point difference with strong routines if she stumbles.

    I do hope that whoever wins, it's not a landslide victory. Blowouts are B-O-R-I-N-G :sheesh:

    Also, the favorite winning = zzz

    A certain other skater who will remain unnamed winning =
    Last edited by R.D.; 12-01-2009 at 09:36 PM.

  12. #27
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    It does remain to be seen if Yuna can handle the pressure of the Olys. she has the CAPABILITY of winning Gold in a landslide but as SA proved, as long as she's not too far ahead in the SP, other skaters can make up the point difference with strong routines if she stumbles.

    I do hope that whoever wins, it's not a landslide victory. Blowouts are B-O-R-I-N-G :sheesh:

    Also, the favorite winning = zzz

    A certain other skater who will remain unnamed winning =
    Why can't you enjoy good performances in themselves?

    A couple years ago, some short-track speed skating event had medalists crawling to the finish line. ROFL people had been wiping out and falling like dominoes, or bowling pins.

    I'd personally rather see the best, even if it's a blow-out.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    A certain other skater who will remain unnamed winning =
    Mao? I think that would be exciting simply because her long program is so entertaining: I am Mao Asada, crazy Russian lady ! Plus even with that program if she does her two triple axels and her triple axel-double toe that will be exciting! If this "unnamed person" is Joannie or Miki then maybe it would be boring, but they are both very expressive so they are fun to watch at least

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    It does remain to be seen if Yuna can handle the pressure of the Olys. she has the CAPABILITY of winning Gold in a landslide but as SA proved, as long as she's not too far ahead in the SP, other skaters can make up the point difference with strong routines if she stumbles.

    I do hope that whoever wins, it's not a landslide victory. Blowouts are B-O-R-I-N-G :sheesh:

    Also, the favorite winning = zzz

    A certain other skater who will remain unnamed winning =
    While I'll agree with you that blowouts leave no suspense and are thus boring, I think it's even more frustrating when the judging is so cryptic and inexplicable that you leave unsatisfied with the results.

    I think my ideal situation would be something along the lines of the Ladies' Event at Torino. Neck-to-neck competition during the SP, but a clear winner after the FS (but not by a landslide per se).

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerpentineSteps View Post
    While I'll agree with you that blowouts leave no suspense and are thus boring, I think it's even more frustrating when the judging is so cryptic and inexplicable that you leave unsatisfied with the results.

    I think my ideal situation would be something along the lines of the Ladies' Event at Torino. Neck-to-neck competition during the SP, but a clear winner after the FS (but not by a landslide per se).
    Personally, I want all the skaters to skate their best. But because Yuna's best is so much better than everyone else, even if Miki, Mao and Joannie turn in good perfs in Vancouver, if Yuna skates clean it's going to be a blowout.

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