Skating Too Tough To Create Stars?

gsrossano · Nov 29, 2009

This is kind of amusing. Speedy says skating is now too difficult to create the stars the sport needs! And, now just whose fault is it that the sport finds itself in that state?

http://in.reuters.com/article/worldOfSport/idINIndia-44242520091125

Also he remarks on about the 100th anniversary of the World Championships.

This is not the 100th anniversary of the World Championships. They were started in 1896, not 1909. This year will be the 100th championship when you take into account the years it was not held due to the world wars.

prettykeys · Nov 29, 2009

This article...

"Carolina Kostner...is the world's top-ranked female ice dancer..."

Hmm!

"...but has struggled to catch the public's imagination at home."

I wonder why!

Mathman · Nov 29, 2009

I believe that the ISU is content to let figure skating contract into a self-contained activity whose primary audience is the competitors themselves.. Sort of like speed skating.

Yes, it is cool that one speed skater can skate faster than another, and that this speed skater set a new world record. But I do not especially want to watch this speed skater winning a race or setting a new record.

Even if the race itself is fun to watch, we do not record it to watch over and over, and for the most part we do not follow the careers of the stars of the sport from one race to the next.

bigsisjiejie · Nov 29, 2009

Hmm, this article definitely has some credibility issues, and I'm hoping Speedy's pronouncement about "skating being too difficult now" is a lost-in-translation kind of thing.

Skating hasn't become more difficult, just programs have become more contorted and cluttered with crapola, and Mr. Cinquanta has to look no further than the nearest mirror to find the cause of that. If this quote from him is accurate, and if I were one of the not-so-distant past highly competent skaters with 5-6+ triple programs (Kwan, Slute, goodness knows how many men, etc.), well, I think I'd be rather insulted.

gsrossano · Nov 29, 2009

And BTW, it is only the 100th championship for the men. Ladies, Pairs and Dance all started their championsips in later years.

Olympia · Nov 29, 2009

Mathman said:
I believe that the ISU is content to let figure skating contract into a self-contained activity whose primary audience is the competitors themselves.. Sort of like speed skating.

Yes, it is cool that one speed skater can skate faster than another, and that this speed skater set a new world record. But I do not especially want to watch this speed skater winning a race or setting a new record.

Even if the race itself is fun to watch, we do not record it to watch over and over, and for the most part we do not follow the careers of the stars of the sport from one race to the next.

You got it, Mathman! And short-track skating is even less interesting. The only time I really enjoyed watching Apolo Ohno was in Dancing with the Stars. This is what happens when we let people treat figure skating solely as a sport.

PolymerBob · Nov 29, 2009

I was happy when Apolo won his gold in '06. It sort of came out of nowhere.

As for figure skating, how can we make it more popular? Maybe if Rachael hired somebody to whack Ashley's knee ...... :biggrin:

Mathman · Nov 29, 2009

Olympia said:
This is what happens when we let people treat figure skating solely as a sport.

I think that's the problem in a nutshell. The Powers That Be are so fearful that some sportswriter will say figure skating is not a sport, that they forget to celebrate and promote what figure skating is.

KKonas · Nov 29, 2009

Mathman said:
I think that's the problem in a nutshell. The Powers That Be are so fearful that some sportswriter will say figure skating is not a sport, that they forget to celebrate and promote what figure skating is.

This is already an issue with many sportswriters especially regarding ice dance. Phil Hersh's opinion, that ice dance is not a sport, is what most sportwriters think. It wasn't too many years ago that a Canadian IOC member actually proposed eliminating ice dance from the Olympics. Fortunately it didn't go anywhere. If we don't continue to promote figure skating as a sport in all it's discipliines, it will be out of the Olympics and that would be a disaster for all figure skating fans.

Mathman · Nov 29, 2009

KKonas said:
If we don't continue to promote figure skating as a sport in all it's discipliines, it will be out of the Olympics and that would be a disaster for all figure skating fans.

I don't agree with that at all. Figure skating as an Olympic sport did just fine for 100 years before anyone ever heard of Phil Hersh or that grouchy Canadian IOC member.

I think we are falling into a trap if we say, "figure skating is a sport just like baseball. Figure skating is a sport just like tennis. Figure skating is a sport just like the 100 meter dash."

IMHO figure skating is a sport that is different from baseball, or tennis, or the hundred meter dash. Vive la difference!

PolymerBob · Nov 29, 2009

A few years ago, I didn't know curling was a sport. In fact, I still don't.

prettykeys · Nov 29, 2009

Mathman said:
I believe that the ISU is content to let figure skating contract into a self-contained activity whose primary audience is the competitors themselves.. Sort of like speed skating.

Yes, it is cool that one speed skater can skate faster than another, and that this speed skater set a new world record. But I do not especially want to watch this speed skater winning a race or setting a new record.

Even if the race itself is fun to watch, we do not record it to watch over and over, and for the most part we do not follow the careers of the stars of the sport from one race to the next.

I have short-track speed skating events favourited on YouTube, as well as horse races (especially of a certain chestnut colt)...

gsrossano · Nov 29, 2009

KKonas said:
If we don't continue to promote figure skating as a sport in all it's discipliines, it will be out of the Olympics and that would be a disaster for all figure skating fans.

That is certainly the bogeyman the ISU (speedy, et. al.) always pulls out to coerce people into accepting unpalatable changes to the sport. I have yet to figure out if this is really true -- that is, what the IOC really thinks about whether skating must be an athletics only activity to stay in the Olympics. If I have the time, maybe I will try and find out while I am in Vancouver covering the Olympics.

ImaginaryPogue · Nov 29, 2009

Mathman said:
I believe that the ISU is content to let figure skating contract into a self-contained activity whose primary audience is the competitors themselves.. Sort of like speed skating.

Yes, it is cool that one speed skater can skate faster than another, and that this speed skater set a new world record. But I do not especially want to watch this speed skater winning a race or setting a new record.

Even if the race itself is fun to watch, we do not record it to watch over and over, and for the most part we do not follow the careers of the stars of the sport from one race to the next.

You see, whereas I can watch Usain Bolt run for ever. His Beijing and Berlin sprints I watch just as much times as any Kurt Browning routine. This man is pushing the limits of what a human body can do, and I find that just as exciting as watching a beautifully constructed and skated program.

bigsisjiejie · Nov 29, 2009

KKonas said:
This is already an issue with many sportswriters especially regarding ice dance. Phil Hersh's opinion, that ice dance is not a sport, is what most sportwriters think. It wasn't too many years ago that a Canadian IOC member actually proposed eliminating ice dance from the Olympics. Fortunately it didn't go anywhere. If we don't continue to promote figure skating as a sport in all it's discipliines, it will be out of the Olympics and that would be a disaster for all figure skating fans.

Figure skating as a whole isn't in any danger of being tossed out of the Olympics. It's one of the bigger moneymakers among all the Winter Games sports, and one of the few Winter sports that consistently attracts considerable female audiences both live ticket sales, and especially television. The IOC isn't completely stupid. The main issue that has threatened ice dance before is a perception that it is completely rigged and corrupt, in favor of the Europeans and especially the Russians (which is historically true). But those same countries' Federations are powerful both in the ISU and the IOC, so I think ice dance is pretty safe whether you consider it a sport or not. And whether you consider it rigged and corrupt or not. Fortunately, last time I checked, neither one of these sports bodies is consulting with Phil Hersh. :biggrin:

(PS My guess is that with the rise of V/M and their success with intl judges, the Canadian IOC member who proposed elimination of ice dance is probably laying low right about now.)

bigsisjiejie · Nov 29, 2009

ImaginaryPogue said:
You see, whereas I can watch Usain Bolt run for ever. His Beijing and Berlin sprints I watch just as much times as any Kurt Browning routine. This man is pushing the limits of what a human body can do, and I find that just as exciting as watching a beautifully constructed and skated program.

Ooh, maybe not the best comparison. Wait until the revelations about use of performance-enhancing substances by Jamaican team comes out. I give it no more than 3-4 years before this story blows wide open and can't be swept under any more. Then see what you think about Bolt and "pushing the limits of the human body." Kurt Browning, I'm pretty much 100% confident did his bit clean.

Mathman · Nov 29, 2009

^ I agree completely with Bigsisjiejie (post 16). Historically, figure skating has been the big television draw of the Winter Olympics.

There are two things that could change this. One is that figure skating might lose its special appeal by becoming "more like other sports."

The other is that the Winter Olympics themselves may drift away into irrelevance. Then it won't matter what's a real sport and what isn't.

ImaginaryPogue · Nov 29, 2009

bigsisjiejie said:
Ooh, maybe not the best comparison. Wait until the revelations about use of performance-enhancing substances by Jamaican team comes out. I give it no more than 3-4 years before this story blows wide open and can't be swept under any more. Then see what you think about Bolt and "pushing the limits of the human body." Kurt Browning, I'm pretty much 100% confident did his bit clean.

I really hope that that doesn't happen, obviously.

That stated, I think my point remains. I can watch some soccer replays on endless loops (The Argentine/Cambiasso goal in 2006). How is this not beautiful?

BravesSkateFan · Nov 29, 2009

I don't think the perception of whether or not figure skating is a sport will change its standing as an Olympic event. After all, there are very few people who would say that baseball is not a sport, and it was dropped from the Olympic program.

bigsisjiejie · Nov 29, 2009

BravesSkateFan said:
I don't think the perception of whether or not figure skating is a sport will change its standing as an Olympic event. After all, there are very few people who would say that baseball is not a sport, and it was dropped from the Olympic program.

In the end, it all comes down to politics and money. Baseball being dropped was strictly a political thing on the part of European IOC members, because with few exceptions, they can't or don't field teams. Baseball is a US-originated sport and there is a strong anti-American bias among certain elements of the IOC membership. The excuse was it's not widespread enough/not enough federations play. Uh-huh, tell that to the highly competitive Latin American and Asian teams. When the question of keeping Modern Pentathlon came up, some of the key influential European members were all for it, even though it's a sport with truly narrow appeal and participation (and requires expensive set-up and facilities to compete it, compared to baseball).

When it comes to the Winter Games, figure skating has some of the broadest participation among federations both large and small, even if many of the skaters sent aren't going to be competitive for top 10.

Skating Too Tough To Create Stars?

gsrossano

prettykeys

Mathman

bigsisjiejie

gsrossano

Olympia

PolymerBob

Mathman

KKonas

Mathman

PolymerBob

prettykeys

gsrossano

ImaginaryPogue

bigsisjiejie

bigsisjiejie

Mathman

ImaginaryPogue

BravesSkateFan

bigsisjiejie

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