Skating Too Tough To Create Stars?

KKonas · Dec 3, 2009

gsrossano said:
I would add that skating is not the only sport (or specifically Olympic sport) where the athletes are partially judged for doing it (whatever it is) "right/pretty" or for how they look when they are doing whatever. So for anyone to say skating should just be about faster, higher stronger without concern for whether an element was done right, because all other sports are only about faster higher stronger would not be correct.

Even for sports that are purely about faster higher stronger, doing it wrong/ugly affects the results. You make an error in form or technique, you don't jump quite as high, or lose time in a race, or can't lift as heavy a weight. Maybe your ugly technique only costs you a little and you still win, maybe it's too ugly and you lose because of it. No different from skating. Your routine is a little ugly maybe other things are good and you still win. It's very ugly, it cost you a lot of points and you lose.

When it comes to the need to do it right/pretty, the main difference I see between a judged sport and a "clocked" sport is that in figure skating if your technique is wrong/ugly you lose points measured in GoE or PCs. In the "clocked" sports your wrong/ugly technique costs you seconds, or inches (cm), or pounds (kg).

In the pole vaulter example, yes the jumper gets over 18 feet and wins even if they have bad technique and look ugly, but they probably would have jumped higher if their form was good. And by having errors in form and not being able to jump as high otherwise, they put them self at risk of being beaten by the jumper with good form who can jump higher because they have good form.

I don't think skating needs to apologize for the fact it is a sport that rewards doing it right and pretty.

True. But in other judged Olympic sports like diving and gymnastics, you still have to have the toughest technical difficulty in order to get the highest marks. The technical mark comes first, then the "presentation" mark. If you can do the most difficulty and look pretty doing it - that's even better. But you can't win Olympic gold just by being pretty. It is an athletic competition after all.

Wicked · Dec 3, 2009

DarkestMoon said:
Snowboarding.

Most snowboarders, from top tier to the average (in comparison), has some sort of sponsorship. Christ, watching the X Games, you see ridiculous sponsors pouring in for the sport from headphones to venue lighting.

So maybe that's why I'm seeing all the snowboarders in the commercials for Vancouver- the sponsors demand it.

antmanb · Dec 3, 2009

KKonas said:
True. But in other judged Olympic sports like diving and gymnastics, you still have to have the toughest technical difficulty in order to get the highest marks. The technical mark comes first, then the "presentation" mark. If you can do the most difficulty and look pretty doing it - that's even better. But you can't win Olympic gold just by being pretty. It is an athletic competition after all.

But the same thing happens in skating. A wonderfully skated routine including 4 triples (toe, sal, loop and flip ) are not going to beat an ok performance with 8 triples and a quad.

The technical prevails in skating too, always has and arguably always will.

The only time the debate really comes up is when the technical content is close 7 triples vs 8, 8 triples vs 7 triples and a quad or two. If the technical is not close it never really becomes a debate, except sometimes the other way when people argue the PCS or execution of a skater with lesser content should carry them over the jumping machine with less "artistry".

Ant

gsrossano · Dec 3, 2009

KKonas said:
True. But in other judged Olympic sports like diving and gymnastics, you still have to have the toughest technical difficulty in order to get the highest marks. The technical mark comes first, then the "presentation" mark. If you can do the most difficulty and look pretty doing it - that's even better. But you can't win Olympic gold just by being pretty. It is an athletic competition after all.

And you can't win in skating by just being pretty either. If you are just pretty and have weak technical content and win, it is usually because the other skaters also had weak technical content also.

If Pluchenko lands the jumps at the Olympics he is hyped to have, his technical content will get him the gold no matter how horrible he might end up artistically.

Ladskater · Dec 6, 2009

? This article makes no sense. You can't convince me that the skeleton or sledding downhill is a sport. Where is the sport? It's more of a skill. There are many sports in the Olympics that require skill over athleticism - figure skating is one of them and gracefulness just happens to be one of the skills involved.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeleton_(sport)

Koboldspike · Dec 6, 2009

Well, I`d like to say something concerning "household names": I am German, and I`ve got my doubts if the average citizen over here even knows that the current world champions in pairs are German, not to mention their names. The people might know Ronaldinho or Roger Federer, but ask who`s Evgeni Plushenko and you certainly get a blank stare or, if you are "lucky", a guess like "do the Russians have a new president?" :biggrin:

Same goes for all skaters; they virtually don`t exist except for figure skating fans. Went to "Golden Ice of Stradivari" in May and got the impression that a lot of folks just had a nice night out but not a clue concerning Plushenko. A guy who managed to do a salto over a car got more applause than him... This weekend I`ve spend a lot of hours watching sport on German TV: ski jumping, biathlon and so on. Of course there was no coverage of the Grand Prix Final. But we didn`t miss the ice completely: some curling was very much en vogue... ZDF miraculously managed to convey the fact that Sawchenko/Szolkowy came in third, but the winners of the other disciplines weren`t even mentioned... What can I say? And that in a country where Kilius/Bäumler were big stars (there`s still some press coverage concerning them). As far as I know there is a rapid decline of figure skating popularity in many countries. In my opinion those of you who blame it, at least partly, on the new judging system are absolutely right. It resulted in endless repetitions of hideous positions (yes, Plushenko`s spins at Olys in Torino were not exactly beautiful to watch...). Hope the people in charge come to their senses before they have ruined this marvellous sport completely.

Joesitz (RIP) · Dec 6, 2009

gsrossano said:
I don't think skating needs to apologize for the fact it is a sport that rewards doing it right and pretty.

I don't think apologies are necessary either. It's a fact that in major competitions in the US, female fans outnumber the male fans by a huge percentage. The years of Miss Henie brought out the cut out and coloring books of her and the media picked up on that. Little girls adored the books and the ..marketing people pushed it to the hilt. Figure Skating was really taking off and attendance increased at the local rinks. Although some boys would take their date to the rink to dance, they did not get interested in trying out the skating tricks. It just didn't attrack boys who preferred sports without prettiness. So... only in America, we can not expect boys or young men to be as special in FS as girls or young ladies are.

I definitely agree it is a ladies' sport for the fans, and so be it. But without the media pushing some of the boys/men in FS despite the strange uniforms, nothing will change. That's the American way.

So the americans should look to a lady cover girl for its FS sport. Maybe Sasha?

gkelly · Dec 23, 2009

gkelly said:
If we were talking about a 2009 parade based in LA, it's more likely they'd have asked Michelle Kwan ....

And so it has come to pass

Does this support the contention that skating is dying?

Mathman · Dec 23, 2009

gkelly said:
And so it has come to pass

Does this support the contention that skating is dying?

This Bud's for you!

(To all: If this link is not clickable, copy and paste this url into your address bar (change ** to tt.))

h**p://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/two-american-icons-unite-on-a-quest-for-the-best-79982067.html

janetfan · Dec 23, 2009

Mathman said:
This Bud's for you!

(To all: If this link is not clickable, copy and paste this url into your address bar (change ** to tt.))

h**p://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/two-american-icons-unite-on-a-quest-for-the-best-79982067.html

Thanks for the link.

Since it is in Pasadena they could have asked Mirai, Caroline or Sasha to ride in the float. But because of the holidays and the proximity of Natls I would hope the three of them have better things to do. :yes:

Mathman · Dec 23, 2009

janetfan said:
Since it is in Pasadena they could have asked Mirai, Caroline or Sasha to ride in the float. But because of the holidays and the proximity of Natls I would hope the three of them have better things to do. :yes:

I believe Anheuser-Busch did invite those three at first, but when they were turned down, decided to go with Bonnie Blair, Dan Jansen and Michelle Kwan instead. Among them they have18 world championships, 9 Olympic medals, 3 Sullivan Awards (and a partridge in a pear tree-e-e-e)

Skating Too Tough To Create Stars?

KKonas

Wicked

antmanb

gsrossano

Ladskater

~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~

Koboldspike

Joesitz (RIP)

gkelly

Mathman

janetfan

Match Penalty

Mathman

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