And Chan has some of the best edges in freestyle today. There's a reason he gets such high PCS.
I love Jeremy Abbott's edge work as well.
Does Skating miss School Figures?
- Thread starter janetfan
- Start date
And Chan has some of the best edges in freestyle today. There's a reason he gets such high PCS.
I love Jeremy Abbott's edge work as well.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
To be fair though figures were done much more slowly than free skaters perform their routines and body lean is all part of riding the edges at speed. If you loko particularly at Dancers who generally execute the turns much better than free skaters they are nearly always leaning into the edge. To have your body upright on a fast deep edge would throw you off.
In my experience coaches always scrutinse the tracing on the ice, it is the sure fire way to diagnose problems, not only with turns but with jumps, spins, cross overs, anything. My coach will always follow me as i do something and then look at the tracing I leave on the ice and explain what went wrong (or well!) and show me the tracing and explain why. I have seen every coach in our rink teach things in similar ways, expecially with the tricky turns like counters/rockers.
Ant
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P88tCYf8k8c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxgR_Cx52-s
Ignoring what the skaters are wearing, and making allowances for possible differences in training history or overall skill level, what do you think are the differences between these two patterns as exercises to teach brackets and general edge control skills?
How about differences in suitability for practicing on crowded freestyle sessions? Or relevance to use in freestyle programs?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxgR_Cx52-s
Ignoring what the skaters are wearing, and making allowances for possible differences in training history or overall skill level, what do you think are the differences between these two patterns as exercises to teach brackets and general edge control skills?
How about differences in suitability for practicing on crowded freestyle sessions? Or relevance to use in freestyle programs?
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- Sep 14, 2008
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There is some merit in saying Figures are worthwhile.
Maybe it would actually be a good idea to bring figures back at the pre-Senior level.
They should absolutely not be a part of competition at the Senior level, though. People actually pay go see the competitions at that level.
Maybe it would actually be a good idea to bring figures back at the pre-Senior level.
They should absolutely not be a part of competition at the Senior level, though. People actually pay go see the competitions at that level.
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2005
I used to hate figures as a kid, too. As an adult, I find a lot of value and serenity in doing them occasionally (weekly when I can).
US Figure Skating is trying to remedy the lack of body awareness/control a bit by the changes to the MITF structure with the forward 8s and backward 8s being re-introduced and loops being added.
FWIW, my (female) coach teaches me the new MIF turns as a figure first to gain control of it. I learned the bracket figure and back double threes when i first started Intermediate MIF(which I have since passed) and have worked the counters and rockers as figures. She is a Gold medalist in figures (passed 8th) and FS. I am close to passing standard on the Novice test and don't think I would have understood the counters if I had not patched them. I had judges tell me that my counters were very strong and clean with good flow and power for the MITF.
The best thing about figures is they teach CORE control, which MITF do not (I cannot attest to the Canadian skills). My (male) coach preaches doing turns from the CORE and using the knee and ankle to finish the motion. He, too, is a Gold medalist in figures and FS (more recent - with both - in the 90s). The more I focus on the core completing the element/skill we are working on, the better it is. You can create very consistent elements if you know what your core is doing and can control it.
US Figure Skating is trying to remedy the lack of body awareness/control a bit by the changes to the MITF structure with the forward 8s and backward 8s being re-introduced and loops being added.
FWIW, my (female) coach teaches me the new MIF turns as a figure first to gain control of it. I learned the bracket figure and back double threes when i first started Intermediate MIF(which I have since passed) and have worked the counters and rockers as figures. She is a Gold medalist in figures (passed 8th) and FS. I am close to passing standard on the Novice test and don't think I would have understood the counters if I had not patched them. I had judges tell me that my counters were very strong and clean with good flow and power for the MITF.
The best thing about figures is they teach CORE control, which MITF do not (I cannot attest to the Canadian skills). My (male) coach preaches doing turns from the CORE and using the knee and ankle to finish the motion. He, too, is a Gold medalist in figures and FS (more recent - with both - in the 90s). The more I focus on the core completing the element/skill we are working on, the better it is. You can create very consistent elements if you know what your core is doing and can control it.
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2009
Yes, yes, yes. Interesting how we adults tend to like figures while the kids don't. But the young in particular could benefit a lot from having to perform exercises that require FOCUS.
Well said--I've been trying to find the words to describe this and you did it. What's lacking from so much of the current skater contingent is solid and dependable core control. And it's especially important once you hit puberty and grow, as your core then becomes a much bigger proportion of your overall mass and weight compared to your peripherals.
Even just for testing, I don't expect figures and patch sessions will ever come back to skating like they were before--it's too costly for ice time for both rinks and skaters, not that remunerative for coaches, plus year by year over time, we're losing coaches who are able to teach figures well. And I don't think you need to do figures to 8th Figure Test level to become a great SP and FS skater. But perhaps some well selected traditional figure work interspersed in the MITF sequence is a step in the right direction to fill some of the training gaps that we seem to be repeatedly spotting in current skaters--not just the elite skaters but at the lower levels as well.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
Absolutely agree, and thank you and mskater93 for your illuminating posts sharing your experiences and thoughts.
The thing about having a whole generation of skaters who may not learn Figures is the scariest part to me. I don't know why, as I'm not a skater, but I'd feel like it'd be a permanently lost art which seems to have great value in a sport I love to watch.
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2005
Why? :scratch:
The majority of skaters that we see today on the senior and junior circuit have never done figures. The footwork and edges for the majority of them is outstanding. Just because figures aren't implemented anymore doesn't mean that skaters do not have to do turns or focus on edges - it is just practiced in a more interactive and beneficial manor, IMO.
There are three aspects to each level of skills - an expanding exercise and two sections which focus on turns. For example, multi circle threes and brackets, and rockers and choctaws. Anyone, who went through Canadian skills knows how much focus you had to have when you did "snakes and ladders"
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- Nov 22, 2009
This is a matter of opinion. Which I don't happen to agree with for ladies and pairs (men and dancers seem to have much better F & E skills). I can't think of that many junior or senior ladies that have footwork and edges I'm willing to salute and mark as "outstanding". YMMV
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- Dec 13, 2005
Well yes, I didn't specifically say it was for ladies - ladies is the discipline I watch the least of actually. Look at some of the Canadian team: Rochette, Ten, Phaneuf, Chan, D/D, V/M, W/P, C/P - All pretty outstanding edgework, footwork, and turns in my view. The Junior up and comers - Ralph and Hill and Nyugen - have awesome basics.
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- Nov 22, 2009
I made my previous comment thinking of the elite junior and senior skaters from around the world that I've managed to see live and on TV/streaming, wasn't just focusing on the Canadians. Are Canadian footwork and edge skills just that much above the rest of the world? I dunno...
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2005
Well, since I am from Canada they are the skaters that I know most about so that's why I used them as an example
I would say that Canadian skaters, for the most part, have excellent skating and edge skills. I don't know how other National teams from around the world would be rated. Japan is one country that has great edgework!
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
Figure skating purists - like myself - will say yes, the school figures are missing. One can tell from the poor posture and poor edges of some of the skaters.
As the great Trixie Schuba once said - "After all it is called Figure Skating." She was the greatest tracer of figures ever.
Figures teach a skater many things - good balance, correct posture and discipline. It takes much patience and concentration to trace figures hour upon hour on a solitary patch of ice. It is actually very theraputic.
I suppose in today's fast paced world the art of tracing figures is a lost art. School figures were never about speed, but rather more about graceful, precise motion.
I did not really appreciate figures until later in my adult years. I agree with Janet Lynn - who by the way was not that great at tracing figures - they should be still a main part of figure skating.
As the great Trixie Schuba once said - "After all it is called Figure Skating." She was the greatest tracer of figures ever.
Figures teach a skater many things - good balance, correct posture and discipline. It takes much patience and concentration to trace figures hour upon hour on a solitary patch of ice. It is actually very theraputic.
I suppose in today's fast paced world the art of tracing figures is a lost art. School figures were never about speed, but rather more about graceful, precise motion.
I did not really appreciate figures until later in my adult years. I agree with Janet Lynn - who by the way was not that great at tracing figures - they should be still a main part of figure skating.
