What did he say this time?
What did he say this time?
This is purely speculation on my part, but I get the sense that while they are undeniably talented and worthy of praise, V/M have benefited greatly in the (positive) hype they receive because they had the path cleared for them in Canada when D/L retired. To be fair, this also presented them with the opportunity to become the leaders in their own country and step up the level of their skating. Still, they have the full force of their federation behind them, boosting their best qualities while D/W have had to work their way up more slowly in the shadow of B/A. That has led to them being overlooked sometimes. Their best qualities have tended to be diminished by relative lack of media attention.
Of course, being training mates with V/M and formerly with B/A, D/W were perpetually being compared to them and not usually favorably. That tends to sink into one's perception over time. Perhaps this is why some always see them as inferior to V/M and other teams despite any improvements they might make. There almost seems to be an opinion among some fans and even journalists that it's unthinkable for D/W to ever beat V/M fairly.
We've all heard how much stock the Canadian federation is putting behind V/M. That should not be a surprise given that they are the host for the upcoming Olys. But the hype at the senior level goes back to at least 2007 worlds if not 2006 Skate Canada. If you can find video of V/M's FD from either event, there was already OGM speculation about them then and not for 2014. Despite the fact that they finished one spot lower at Worlds and had an equally auspicious debut, D/W got little, if any, of the same media speculation. That may be due in part to the fact that the US is still getting accustomed to ice dance being its deepest discipline. Canada has been dance crazy for nearly 30 years and is always looking for the next stars. Americans may have been used to boosting only one team at a time for so long, that the prospect of two or three seemed too good to be true.
Still, that's where we are now. B/A's injuries over the last two seasons finally provided enough daylight for D/W to emerge as serious contenders. Perhaps that long apprenticeship was for the best. I've always had the sense that they prefer being the hunters rather than the hunted, at least up to this point. That extra wait may have given them the time to develop and grow and catch up to their peers in areas where they had previously been deficient.
The judges certainly seem to be looking at them with fresh eyes. I think that's good for ice dance as a sport. Perhaps there really will be no more waiting your turn or set pecking orders. We'll see.
Good luck to all.
Some of the above observations are very nice but they are not what is supposed to be judged. They go to personal enjoyment of a program and taste, not skating quality.
In NO way were D/W's pc's superior today and it is galling that they were two points ahead when it was as rough and sloppy as it was in parts, and when White's own account of their skating was way more accurate than what the judges scored. Yeah, they should look at the program and judge it with fresh eyes, not BLIND eyes as they did today.
jcoates, that was a great post and you made some terrific points about the parallel rise of D/W and V/M. That was well-thought and intelligent unlike some other comments. It's posts like yours that keep me reading forums despite the less intelligent posts that one has to wade through. Thank you for that.
Here is a fantastic montage I found on Youtube of them for anyone that is interested:
Nevertheless, any accurate reading of my post would find that I never accused V/M of not deserving any placement they have earned. My point was in reference primarily to the perception of the two teams' qualities with respect die hard fans (many of whom have very firm favorites) and at times the media. I only referenced judges by name at the end and only to make the fairly obvious point that D/W are getting new-found respect and attention from multiple judging panels which frankly is an extension of the work from last season.
Skaters are not static beings who are born with gold medals around their necks. Some are more naturally talented than others. Some take longer to mature. That should not preclude us from appreciating any skater or team when then reach a new level of performance. Whether you support them or not, that achievement should be appreciated.
Making an effort put aside preconceived opinions and look at skaters with a fresh perspective was the ultimate point I was trying to make. That does not mean unanimity of opinion has to be reached.
BTW, I suspect that much of the 1.79 lead earned came from increased levels on the circular step sequence. D/W earned a level 4. As dorispulaski noted in another thread, the rules as currently written indicate that PCS tend to go up when all technical elements are performed with greater speed and higher levels. That may explain the now apparently controversial wuzzrobbed D/W lead.
That's all I have to say on the matter. Vent if you must.
Last edited by jcoates; 12-03-2009 at 08:56 PM. Reason: spelling
GO KERRS! Prove my bronze medal predictions wrong!
I haven't seen D/W's OD, so no comments. V/M had a good, solid outing, but that wasn't their best skate. Considering the circumstances though, props to them for skating like they did with jet lag (14 hours! ouch). I thought the lift was wonky and they seemed kinda tired. Nonetheless, they deserved their marks.
I'm hoping Doris, wallylutz or Dragonlady will do a more detailed explanation. I'm no technique expert. *looks around hopefully*
I love both teams but my impression is that the Canadians have insane edging (often commented on by commentators), unison, free leg extensions and toe points; overall neat, precise technicians. D/W have improved tremendously as well but their carriage and unison cannot (as yet) match up to V/M's (I watched their tango romanticas back to back). Both teams are technically VERY good though, this is nit-picking.
One thing I really love about V/M is that they are typically well-dressed. In a discipline which is perhaps most prone to questionable/ hideous clothing a la K/N, I'm grateful that they wear appropriate, classy costumes. I'd like them to stay that way unless the dance calls for it, thanks. K/N have hurt my eyes badly as it is.
Great post jcoates! Can't say I agree with everything you said (and IIRC, no one was saying that V/M would be Olympic contenders back in 06/07) but that was a thoughtful and logical argument.
I haven't seen V/M skating with total abandon since the 2007/08 season because of Tessa's injury (Their Worlds 08 FD is ). Shades of it appeared in the SC FD, so hopefully we'll see them kick it up another notch today.
Well folks, the battles in US nationals and Olympics just got more interesting.