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Thread: Grand Prix Final: Ladies SP

  1. #421
    Thank God for Stephane Lambiel and Matt Savoie! shine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ehdtkqorl123 View Post
    The downgrade call was unfair.
    boohoo. Yuna is by far not the only or first or last skater to receive questionable downgrades.
    Last edited by shine; 12-04-2009 at 08:33 PM.

  2. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel5555 View Post
    Well, I'm honestly surprised about this thread. I was sure to see more angry talk, but for some strange reason people here were more angry to Yuna when she scored high and now they are kind to her when she finished second.
    I'm not too sure I see that so much as I see a horde of Yuna uberfans showing up to protest her DG. I mean come on guys, 65 points for a pop AND a DG is still INSANELY high.

  3. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by prettykeys View Post
    But what seems to be a near-consensus is that the UR call on the 3T was plain bad. I don't have any reason to believe it was motivated by dishonesty. Actually so far, this event has been relatively well-judged.
    OK, I was joking when I wrote the comment about me being painted as an anti-YuNatic. Next time, I will use a more obvious emoticon when I'm being facetious (alas, the green disappointed one is my favourite).

    Anyways, I agree with you--the UR call on Yu-Na's 3T is definitely questionable. I actually agree with people like you and Blades of Passion who were giving reasonable, measured and fairly objective reasons for why Yu-Na's 3T should not be downgraded. What I was objecting to, however, were previous posters like the one who automatically assumed that Yu-Na was the recipient of unfair tech calls because the the tech caller was Japanese (despite the fact that today's tech caller was Swiss, IIRC).

    As for my apparent tendency to distortedly summarize other people's opinions...well, I'll leave that for another thread, this one is getting too cluttered.

  4. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by evangeline View Post
    OK, I was joking when I wrote the comment about me being painted as an anti-YuNatic. Next time, I will use a more obvious emoticon when I'm being facetious (alas, the green disappointed one is my favourite).
    Oh man. I'm sorry for misreading your posts. I can't tell subtle sarcasm unless emoticons are used.

  5. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by hikki View Post
    Youtube didn't have these, but ones that come to my mind are:
    • Rachael Flatt SP WTT 09 3-3
    • Fumie Suguri SP Skate America this season 3flip (though Tara Lipinki pointed out in the icenetwork feed that it might get a call

    Um, I don't know about Rachael's case, but Fumie's was quite visible. I was there, and I was pretty sure it was gonna get DGed.

  6. #426
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    R.D.
    I'm not too sure I see that so much as I see a horde of Yuna uberfans showing up to protest her DG. I mean come on guys, 65 points for a pop AND a DG is still INSANELY high.
    That UR is hard to see (if it's present). Some people can't see it after watching the video for several times, but that's just because they don't see it. I think I saw it the first time when I saw the performance for the first time, it was like "hey, something strange just happened". But I don't know really, maybe I'm wrong and that call is, in fact, unfair. And there are a lot of people who don't see it, so maybe they are right.

    65 points is not insanely high at all, looking at her overall quality.
    Last edited by Daniel5555; 12-04-2009 at 08:40 PM.

  7. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    I'm not too sure I see that so much as I see a horde of Yuna uberfans showing up to protest her DG. I mean come on guys, 65 points for a pop AND a DG is still INSANELY high.

    Well, to be fair, it's the principle of the matter--whether UR calls that close should be called--that's being debated here. What Yu-Na actually scored is sort of irrelevant--this debate can and will still be beaten to dead-horseness even if Yu-Na had scored 80 or 50 pts for her performance today.

  8. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkestMoon View Post
    Oh man. I'm sorry for misreading your posts. I can't tell subtle sarcasm unless emoticons are used.
    No worries, it's often hard to tell when someone is being sarcastic/joking when all you see is text (I've fallen victim to that myself, after all). Emoticons are definitely helpful, and maybe I'll choose to write in blue or something when I'm feeling particularly facetious so I won't be terribly misconstrued.

  9. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    Sorry, but I disagree. Yu-Na singling a planned triple and being downgraded on a triple+triple attempt and still being less than 1 point close to a clean Miki Ando is just plain wrong. It's not like Miki is the same calibre as someone like Mira Leung or Tugba Karademir. She's a former world champ and the reigning world bronze medalist for crying out loud. Kim is not that much better a skater than Ando, IMO.
    You gotta be kidding. I see huge gap between Miki's mechanical/boring style and Yuna's elegant/exciting style. Are you kidding? Did you forget about the difference in the score when Yuna won 2009 world title? She is in her class of her own.

  10. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie_S View Post
    Er... Sorry, but I can't possibly agree with you.
    I suggest you get a chance to see them compete right at the scene.
    If you can't tell the difference after that, I suggest you go see an eye doctor ASAP. I was totally blown away by Yu-na's skating. Faster, higher, more powerful than anybody else. Such a beautiful skater.
    I agree with Marie_S. Before I saw the live competition of Miki and Yuna at 2008 SA, I thought that they were in the same league. However, it was not. There is clearly huge gap btw two. Of course I liked Miki's powerful jumps and skatings.

  11. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by hikki View Post
    Youtube didn't have these, but ones that come to my mind are:
    • Rachael Flatt SP WTT 09 3-3
    • Fumie Suguri SP Skate America this season 3flip (though Tara Lipinki pointed out in the icenetwork feed that it might get a call
    Quote Originally Posted by gourry View Post
    Um, I don't know about Rachael's case, but Fumie's was quite visible. I was there, and I was pretty sure it was gonna get DGed.
    I agree about Fumie's call, it was UR'd.

    It's too bad I can't see Rachael's DG'd jump. She's usually very good with her jumps and almost never gets UR or edge calls.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkestMoon View Post
    1. I would say Miki Ando's UR on her 3Loop at SA last year in the short. Her combo was probably the biggest one of the 3Lz-3L.

    2. I guess you haven't read numerous posts about how X fans "just" want to see fair judging for the sport (even though their skater got wronged) but they only defend their skater, fighting tooth and nail. You can be die-hardly screaming for objectivity in judging and scrutinize every skater except your favorite. You can scrutinize your favorites too.
    I'd have to disagree with you about that. And again, it's too bad I can't see it either, but I don't believe it was such an obviously bad UR call. Ando also had problems fully rotating it later in the season. Maybe that's why she's doing a 3-2 instead of the 3-3 this season.

    I agree with being fairer and not just railing against the establishment for "perfect" YuNa ('cause she's not perfect even on her better days...who is?) while ignoring injustices elsewhere.

    However, I also have a suspicion that most figure skating fans do not come from a country who has had one good figure skater in its whole history, and she happens to be a top-tier skater getting a very unusual and tight UR call in a nation that is historically her "rival" country. I realize that YuNa-bots are one of the most annoying and persistent fanatics, but I also feel there is a lot of self-righteousness directed at them for being un-uniquely human. Most of them are more fans of YuNa than of Figure Skating itself and I myself have argued with more than a handful of them as I am wont to do. But it seems the best thing to do is to flag those posts, let the mods do their job, and move on. The very fact that they typically have less than 20 posts means it's not worth "fighting" with them. Or if you're going to complain about those types of posters, then at least be consistent, as there are other "once in a blue moon" type of negative posters who are obviously fans of other skaters...

  12. #432
    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rossdale View Post
    You gotta be kidding. I see huge gap between Miki's mechanical/boring style and Yuna's elegant/exciting style. Are you kidding? Did you forget about the difference in the score when Yuna won 2009 world title? She is in her class of her own.
    No, I am not kidding. Yu-Na didn't make TWO MAJOR mistakes in the SP like singling a triple and under-rotating her triple toe in the jump combo either in the Worlds SP. Without question, when both are clean, Kim definitely beats Ando, hands down, but Yu-Na was far from clean in this SP and she is way too close in the scores with a clean Miki. If Yu-Na went clean and only scored less than 1 point above a 2 major mistakes skate by Miki, I have a feeling you'd be questioning the placements too.
    Last edited by museksk8r; 12-04-2009 at 09:15 PM.

  13. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by enlight78 View Post
    Ice Network showed a freeze capture slow mo of Yu-Na 3/3 ; it was obviously 1/4 short and even a little more. A definite UR. In real time I admit it looks good; but the panel gets to use slo mo. So I don't know why you guys are causing such a ruckes; she underrotated and got caught big deal.
    You should buy a pair of glasses. You need to corrrect your eye-sight. Do you have a decent health insurance to cover it?
    Last edited by rossdale; 12-04-2009 at 09:23 PM.

  14. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    No, I am not kidding. Yu-Na didn't make TWO MAJOR mistakes in the SP like singling a triple and under-rotating her triple toe in the jump combo either in the Worlds SP. Without question, when both are clean, Kim definitely beats Ando, hands down, but Yu-Na was far from clean in this SP and she is way too close in the scores with a clean Miki. If Yu-Na went clean and only scored less than 1 point above a 2 major mistakes skate by Miki, I have a feeling you'd be questioning the placements too.
    I do not buy your assessment that Miki did her clean performance at all. Her jumps yesterday were not as good as before. Her 3-2 jump clearly showed under-rotation. Another triple and double axel were also weak. You can not say "clean" just based on no popping or no falls. Maybe she did "pretend to be clean" performance

  15. #435
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    It's true that Yu-Na's score was too high if you consider the [color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color] downgrade she received. She is overinflated in several areas of her score, even if she IS probably the most talented lady skating today.

    Her score was accurate for the performance she actually gave, though. 65 points with a popped jump is fine, when you consider her amazing 3-3. I would have put her ahead of Miki (who made a mistake on the Layback, remember).

    All in all...I wish the edge call idiocy on Yu-Na's Flip wouldn't have happened last year. She should be doing a 3Flip-3Toe combo and a 3Lutz out of footwork, as she always has.

    These calls are like Michelle Kwan being told that her Spiral Sequence deserves a penalty.

    It simply makes no sense at all and, as a skater, when you are told that one of your BEST elements is actually flawed (when it really isn't)...that seriously messes with your head.

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