Grand Prix Final: Ladies SP | Page 14 | Golden Skate

Grand Prix Final: Ladies SP

prettykeys

Medalist
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Also, what I was trying to say before is that even with HD-TV, it is still difficult to objectively determine the exact (or as you say, 1-2 decimal) rotation of a jump with the naked eye, especially within a limited timeframe. Why don't you actually give it a try, and tell me how it goes.
Oh, sooooo difficult! :rofl:

You're right! When I look at YuNa's 3Lz-3T, I can't decide...is it rotated, or underrotated?

And ancient Greek Philosophers thought they asked themselves the hard questions!

:laugh:
 

camion

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
I'm glad Baiul got gold over Kerrigan. She deserved it and I didn't like Kerrigan's bad attitude (especially about Mickey Mouse).

Having watched Yuna's SP in the highest quality I could find on YT, I thought it was a fine performance except for the popped 3F. I don't see how they can call the 3T part of 3Lz/3T combo under rotated. It was a very good jump. Definitely a bad call. But it is what it is. In the kiss and cry, both Yuna and Brian looked a bit surprised by the score. I can't blame them. Nevertheless, I hope this will be a catalyst for Yuna to go all out and smoke the free skate with massive fire. Kick butt tomorrow and show that fire in your belly, Yuna!

Are you referring to the Disney parade fiasco? LOL
Yuna will definitely be smokin' tomorrow! I really can't wait!!!
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
By the way, you are not paying my salary so is there any reason why I need to report my progress? I am just kidding ^^

No, I was asking you to try determining the exact rotation of a jump, down to 1 or 2 decimal places, using only your eyes on an HD-TV in a limited amount of time (like no more than 3-4 minutes).

It's not as easy as you think it is.
 

museksk8r

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
So Yu-Na Kim's problems with the 3flip continue and she has another one planned for the LP and very likely no 3loop too . . . WOW, I dare think Miki Ando has a legitimate chance to win this now!

Great for Alena Leonova setting herself up as the forefront challenger for the European title this season. I hope she achieves it! :love:
 
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hikki

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Country
Japan
I'm glad Baiul got gold over Kerrigan. She deserved it and I didn't like Kerrigan's bad attitude (especially about Mickey Mouse).

Phoenix, I randomly mentioned the judge Jan Hoffman to point out how some people bring up old issues when they're irrelevant. But yes, the Mickey Mouse incident! Didn't she say something like "I don't need to be here?" Oh the drama of the 90's.... :biggrin: Ok I'll stop here as this is off topic.
 

Lucky Star

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Does any other skater have the speed, rotation, height, and air-form like YuNa does?

You didn't understand me. I agree with Yu-Na's GOE's and have nothing against it. The question was that "no other skater got more than +1 GOE with a downgraded jump this season" and I just explained what I think. Yu-Na always has higher GOE's (and she deserves it) and this time it was the same
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Oh, sooooo difficult! :rofl:

You're right! When I look at YuNa's 3Lz-3T, I can't decide...is it rotated, or underrotated?

And ancient Greek Philosophers thought they asked themselves the hard questions!

:laugh:

:disapp:

Ok, time to clear things up. Firstly, read this post I posted earlier: http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?p=437071#post437071

Oh, and if you think that it's perfectly easy to objectively and correctly determine the exact rotation of a jump down to 1-2 decimal places using only one's eyes in an extremely limited time frame....good for you. I'm sure the ISU would love to have you on their tech panels.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
No, I was asking you to try determining the exact rotation of a jump, down to 1 or 2 decimal places, using only your eyes on an HD-TV in a limited amount of time (like no more than 3-4 minutes).

It's not as easy as you think it is.

Of course it is hard and the truth is that it feels subjective at times. I think they are getting way too strict. They should ding the jumps that can clearly be seen as urs and leave the rest alone. i feel the same about edge calls too. The obvious one's should get dinged and the one's that are harder to tell just leave alone.

These calls will have the opposite effect of CoP trying to make the sport more athletic - as certain skaters and coaches will try for less
 
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prettykeys

Medalist
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Phoenix, I randomly mentioned the judge Jan Hoffman to point out how some people bring up old issues when they're irrelevant. But yes, the Mickey Mouse incident! Didn't she say something like "I don't need to be here?" Oh the drama of the 90's.... :biggrin: Ok I'll stop here as this is off topic.
Yeah, bringing up past dubious judging decisions is irrelevant.

But then again, so is deflecting the bad tech panel's judgment in DG'ing YuNa's 3-3 combination into things like "oh........but YuNa's been downgraded before (NOT on a jump like this, Mr/Ms. Genius)" and "but, it's so hard to see the difference between 89 and 91 degrees of underrotation!" (uhhh, but YuNa's nowhere near that range, Ms. Objective.)

:)
 

prettykeys

Medalist
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
:disapp:

Ok, time to clear things up. Firstly, read this post I posted earlier: http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?p=437071#post437071

Oh, and if you think that it's perfectly easy to objectively and correctly determine the exact rotation of a jump down to 1-2 decimal places using only one's eyes in an extremely limited time frame....good for you. I'm sure the ISU would love to have you on their tech panels.
I see you're a student of Professor Strawman.
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Of course it is hard and the truth is that it feels subjective at times. I think they are getting way too strict. They should ding the jumps that can clearly be seen as urs and leave the rest alone. i feel the same about edge calls to. The obvious one's should get dinged and the one's that are harder to ttell just leave alone.

These calls will have the opposite effect of CoP trying to make the sport more athletic - as certain skaters and coaches will try for less

Oh, I agree with you. Plus, I also don't think that Yu-Na's 3T should have been called as a UR, it was definitely a strict call.

What I disagree with, however, are people who think the tech callers are completely incompetent at their jobs or and egregiously biased and in an elaborate (/ethnic) conspiracy to keep Yu-Na down by giving her URs.
 
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hikki

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Country
Japan
YuNa doesn't sound happy

From icenetwork news
"I saw in slow motion in the kiss and cry the triple-triple and I thought it was not downgraded, so I don't know what happened," Kim said. "I will check my performance today in the hotel. I think it was a good fight. Maybe I can forget about it tomorrow."
 

justaskatingfan

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Yuna's video is up already. I guess Korean fans are fast...... lol
I was watching it live online, too, so the screen was quite fuzzy and I couldn't see well, but this is much better.

To me, her 3-3 looks just as good as the one at TEB or SA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAqni0POd90

Look at where the landing skate boot was pointing just before the quick twist on her 3T landing( usually when the blade made contact with the ice) and it does suggest UR.
 

rossdale

Match Penalty
Joined
Dec 4, 2009
No, I was asking you to try determining the exact rotation of a jump, down to 1 or 2 decimal places, using only your eyes on an HD-TV in a limited amount of time (like no more than 3-4 minutes).

It's not as easy as you think it is.

Come on. Let me demonstrate proposal.

1. Put a referece point in arena. This will be degree 0
2. Put a laser/touch sensor in a player's blades. It will position the angle of take off with respect to the reference point. The revolution is only counted for jumping period. Jump period is determined by a touch sensior. An actuator can be used for the sensor. Any type of piezoelectric material converts pressure to the electrical signal. After land, the sensor detects the angle of landing
3. The count the rovolution can be easily calculated by difference btw take off and landing angle.

Seriously, If someone gives me a fund, I can come up with proposal. Cost is the only thing which holds back this concept. Believe me. The current technologies can easiliy support this type of device. It is just matter of demands and costs.
 

hikki

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Country
Japan
And Miki's not satisfied

From the same icenetwork article
"[The jump] felt slightly off when I went into the air, so I did a double loop," Ando said. "I really wanted to do that triple-triple! But I went on with my program, and only thought about nailing my triple flip. I also missed my [layback] spin: my left edge slipped."

I LOVE her attitude, the fact she really wanted 3/3. :clap:
 

prettykeys

Medalist
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
rossdale, I don't think the Figure Skating federations have enough money to invest in technology of that level.

Cute idea, though. ;)

And there is something strange to me about bringing in such a component into a Figure Skating competition, for some reason.
 

gourry

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Come on. Let me demonstrate proposal.

1. Put a referece point in arena. This will be degree 0
2. Put a laser/touch sensor in a player's blades. It will position the angle of take off with respect to the reference point. The revolution is only counted for jumping period. Jump period is determined by a touch sensior. An actuator can be used for the sensor. Any type of piezoelectric material converts pressure to the electrical signal. After land, the sensor detects the angle of landing
3. The count the rovolution can be easily calculated by difference btw take off and landing angle.

Seriously, If someone gives me a fund, I can come up with proposal. Cost is the only thing which holds back this concept. Believe me. The current technologies can easiliy support this type of device. It is just matter of demands and costs.


Wow, that was quick! When I wrote someday someone comes up with something, I meant someday in 10 years or so.:laugh:
Anyway, the thing is that do skaters demand this kind of device?;) There are so many skaters who minimize underrotation by maximizing prerotation. This "device" just calculates the actual rotation in the air therefore may reveal some inconvenient truth.:biggrin:
 
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janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Look at where the landing skate boot was pointing just before the quick twist on her 3T landing( usually when the blade made contact with the ice) and it does suggest UR.

What else is new? So many of the 3x3's are short and if they keep calling them this tight we will see less and less of them.

Did it matter so much if Irina or Shiz were short on their second jump back in the day?
Or today if Mao, Joannie, Miki and now Yuna are a few degress short?

I am not so sure what ISU is thinking and they control the tech callers.

Do they think skating fans enjoy seeing less difficulty or an entire event where the Ladies are skating scared?

If they pull this crap at the Olympics they will lose even more fans.
 

lolita90

Spectator
Joined
Dec 4, 2009
I think sincerely that Yuna Kim is over-evaluated.
There are no doubts that her score (over 70's!!) is too inflated. In SA and GPX she even deserved less than 60's... plz.. she can't jump a normal 3F (only with wrong edge) and what about 3loops...
She is as normal as other skaters that participate in this competition..
I can't understand why you guys are complaining so much.
 
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