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Thread: Grand Prix Final: Ladies SP

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by evangeline View Post
    But can it easily be converted to 1-2 decimal points?

    It's not like the ISU is counting the degree of rotations with lasers or other extremely exacting tracking technology. The ISU is using humans to determine the degree of rotation with their eyes in a limited amount of time. Maybe you have the benefit of the time to watch Yu-Na's 3-3 closeup in super-high HD on a huge screen 50 times before you make your 1-2 decimal point calculations.

    The tech callers don't.

    It is a lame excuse for poor judgement. If human can not do the fair call, please ask machines to take over their jobs. It is cheap to buy high qulality HD TV and just watch it. It is non-sense

  2. #242
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evangeline View Post


    Where should I start? Should I even bother?
    Start anywhere, and please "bother". I would like to hear.

    I just watched the YuNa video, I'm happy that YuNa popped her 3Flip-->1Flip if she didn't feel confident about nailing it (way better than falling and hurting herself.)

    I feel that often times, this season, lady skaters got UR calls for jumps that were slightly UR'd but not by more than 1/4. It is disheartening for the skaters and unfortunate for the sport, but I accepted that that's how stringent CoP was going to be when the call could go either way.

    However, YuNa's 3Lz-3T looks almost completely rotated to my naked eyes. So I don't get the UR call on the 3T at all. YuNa has had less rotation at another competition this year and was not downgraded. Here, the flow out of the jump wasn't completely smooth, but I don't see the underrotation. Not even by 45 degrees...

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by mishieru07 View Post
    Yu Na not in first? Joannie in 4th? So much for Ladies being predictable.

    Eh that 3-3 looks fine to me. Weird downgrade (maybe there's a very strict tech controller).

    I can't tell edge calls, URs and levels very well either, unless it's an outright mistake. I will honestly tell you I still don't know what makes a Lvl 4 Step Sequence and what doesn't. And of course, there are our favourite DGs, ! and e.

    Couple days ago, I was arguing on FSU that FS is highly prone to subjectivity because of PCS.

    Well, now I'll take my words back and say even TES is subjective too.

    Hasn't the ISU learnt from the recent WC qualifying match between France and Ireland, with Henry's controversial handball? With all the technology at their disposal, you'd thought Speedy and co would use it (do they? don't really know). Hmph.

    OTOH, this makes for an exciting LP! I hope everyone skates better tomorrow (don't beat yourself up Yu Na, you're a GREAT skater and you CAN land that damn 3 Flip. Believe Yu Na and go kill the LP!)

    ----------------------

    It was not a strict tech. If it were, she/he should have down graded Miki combination jump as well. Yuna's 3-3 jump was not even in a grey area. It was clearly an excellent and fully rotated jump.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by camion View Post
    I agree that ethnicity/race plays in to many things, but I just really hated the fact that you jokingly referred to a Japanese lady. I see your argument in the level 1s & all, but still it sounded really racist to me & that's one thing my dad taught me from his experience growing up in Korea as a mixed child. Don't ever assume or snub someone based on race/ethnicity or looks. And I definitely understand how Koreans & Japanese always have an underlying tension with the historical past & current ones like Dokdo, but still both are part of my heritage & I hate it when there is so much hatred going on. And, I mentioned Yuna recieving a +1 GOE at SA for the LP because I saw a shameful comment saying that judge MUST be Korean because all the other judges gave her minus GOEs. I'm not saying whether a GOE is deserved or undeserved, but people make so much assumptions out of biases.
    Hey, I am sorry to hear that you thought I was making racist comments, but it wasn't like OMG, Japan raped Korean women during WWII, so they must hate Yuna kim and needed to downgrade her jumps. Eermm... no.

    If anything, it will be Yuna vs. other Strong Japanese ladies. Also, I understand why you hate to hear about Korea and Japan's past issues, but really there is sadly absolutely nothing you can do about it.. It is really up to the governments to fix it because the deep hatred between these two nations are just huge. All I can say is maybe Japan apologize to the world like the Germans did and try to make changes instead of hiding the history? (I am trying to be neutral here, since I got both Korean and Japanese friends! )Come on, just because Germans would hate to hear it, it doesn't mean the world will stop talking about what Nazis did. (And, I was greatly impressed when I visited Berlin that there were all these WWII memorials and museums... And I made tons of sweet German friends! )

    Please, I didn't mention anything about the history, so let's not bring it to skating?? And I really thought today's tech was that Japanese lady Junko, and she was not, and people corrected me (she was referee or something.) It was the tech who gave Yuna "e" in 2008 COC.
    Last edited by figurejennah; 12-04-2009 at 09:19 AM.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweethinker View Post
    In my opinion, the matters are quite clear. The judges gave Kim +1.6 GOE on her 3Lz-3t. Meanwhile, the tech specialist downgraded the same jump. Is it normal for the judges to give that kind of GOE for an underrotated jump? I don't think so. The tech specialist was clearly WRONG, or the nine judges were. Nine against one. Simple mathematics.
    It's because rules were changed since last season. Last season judges saw the scores that tech specialist gave, and knew about UR, edge calls, law levels, etc. And they gave negative GOE's for DG jumps because they knew that it was DG. This season judges don't see scores that tech specialist gave to a skater when decide what GOE they'll give and it's not their job to decide is jump was UR more or less 1/4. that's why UR jumps now may have positive GOEs

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by rossdale View Post
    Junko is a terrible judge. I do not find any consistency in her judging calls. Also she is severely biased for Japanese and non-Japanese skaters.
    It is not professional at all. I would turn off TV if she become a technical judge in Olympic games. You know what? Japanese skater swill take over the podium no matter what they do in the performance.
    Oh Yoko Junko potato potato... who the f cares?
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpf0910/SEG011OF.HTM
    Do you see this Junko person's name here? Didn't think so.

    This reminds me, I still can't get over how the evil German judge Jan Hoffmanh gave Baiul Gold over Kerrigan!!!!!
    Last edited by hikki; 12-04-2009 at 09:55 AM.

  7. #247
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    I think it's most appropriate to stick to the current competition and what we see instead of speculating too far.

    Let's not yet go into sinister motivations of judges/tech panelists, and also, do not use the fact that YuNa has had !/e or underrotation calls, before.

    Also, I am not that bothered. I just want YuNa to feel glad and happy because she skated well. Miki skated better, but they are both in strong contention to place first, and now it's up to either of them to skate a clean, good LP to win--just like it was in the olden days.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by rossdale View Post
    Junko is a terrible judge. I do not find any consistency in her judging calls. Also she is severely biased for Japanese and non-Japanese skaters.
    It is not professional at all. I would turn off TV if she become a technical judge in Olympic games. You know what? Japanese skater swill take over the podium no matter what they do in the performance.
    This is the most ridiculous post I've seen today. Firstly, Junko Hiramatsu is not a judge. Secondly, what concrete evidence (preferably in the form of protocols) do you have that she is 'severely biased' for Japanese and non-Japanese skaters? If anything, you're the one who seems to be the severely biased person here.

    True, she did give Yu-Na a Level 1 step sequence at a competition over 2 years ago. But if you actually check the protocols of the event, you can see that Hiramatsu gave practically every skater low levels on their step sequences, even the only Japanese skater at that event, Fumie Suguri. Yu-Na was far from the only skater to get a Level 1 for her steps at that event. Just because Hiramatsu's an extremely strict caller doesn't she's severely biased or completely inconsistent.
    Last edited by evangeline; 12-04-2009 at 09:23 AM.

  9. #249
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    figurejennah, I was just referring to how u mentioned your friends fight whenever it comes down to history. Anyways, I agree with prettykeys. Yuna didn't deserved to be dinged today & it has to do with consistency. Judges, tech panel need to have a seminar or something. I don't get how Yuna could be dg . It seems rather random.
    Last edited by camion; 12-04-2009 at 09:25 AM.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky Star View Post
    It's because rules were changed since last season. Last season judges saw the scores that tech specialist gave, and knew about UR, edge calls, law levels, etc. And they gave negative GOE's for DG jumps because they knew that it was DG. This season judges don't see scores that tech specialist gave to a skater when decide what GOE they'll give and it's not their job to decide is jump was UR more or less 1/4. that's why UR jumps now may have positive GOEs
    Thanks for explaining, but I am aware of that. What I'm trying to say is that if the jump really was worth DG, the judges would probably not give it +1.6 GOE. According to my knowledge, no other skater got more than +1 GOE with a downgraded jump this season.

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by hikki View Post
    Oh Yoko Junko potato potato... who the f cares?
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpf0910/SEG011OF.HTM
    Do you see this Junko person's name here? Didn't think so.

    This reminds me, I still can't get over ow the eveil German judge Jan Hoffmanh gave Baiul Gold over Kerrigan!!!!!
    For clairication, Junko was not judging lady's game. Someone was inquiring about Junko and I just replied to the thread.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Thanks, that's the problem with jumping around from board to board :o

    I missed Akiko today - but am not surprised in the least if she was under marked.

    Reputation is everything in CoP and as much as I enjoy Akiko's skating her rep is not as big as some of the other girls.

    I hope she skates well tomorrow.
    I thought Akiko should've gotten a better score myself. She was great to watch.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweethinker View Post
    According to my knowledge, no other skater got more than +1 GOE with a downgraded jump this season.
    And no other skater this season didn't have as high GOE's as Yu-Na even for fully rotated jumps. Yu-Na's GOE's for jumps are always higher than other skaters and this time it was the same, especially because judges didn't know that the jump was DG by tech specialist

  14. #254
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweethinker View Post
    Thanks for explaining, but I am aware of that. What I'm trying to say is that if the jump really was worth DG, the judges would probably not give it +1.6 GOE. According to my knowledge, no other skater got more than +1 GOE with a downgraded jump this season.
    sweethinker is correct. Y'all can point to the rulebook and defer judgment, yadayada, but what's actually happening out there is that judges usually still judge jumps and hand out GoE's while making rotation considerations.

    Personally, I hope YuNa will not force herself to change her 3Lz-3T technique or effort because of this outcome (because consciously trying to change it may ruin her technique), but I am actually happy YuNa is in this challenging moment. It's not a bad thing that she is faced with doing a clean LP or possibly lose.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadia01 View Post
    I thought Akiko should've gotten a better score myself. She was great to watch.
    I will try and catch her SP later today. It is a shame that she hasn't been given good marks all season for her SP. At COC she skated good but her SP marks felt low.

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