Grand Prix Final: Ladies SP

**evangeline** · 12-04-2009, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by janetfan

Of course it is hard and the truth is that it feels subjective at times. I think they are getting way too strict. They should ding the jumps that can clearly be seen as urs and leave the rest alone. i feel the same about edge calls to. The obvious one's should get dinged and the one's that are harder to ttell just leave alone.

These calls will have the opposite effect of CoP trying to make the sport more athletic - as certain skaters and coaches will try for less

Oh, I agree with you. Plus, I also don't think that Yu-Na's 3T should have been called as a UR, it was definitely a strict call.

What I disagree with, however, are people who think the tech callers are completely incompetent at their jobs or and egregiously biased and in an elaborate (/ethnic) conspiracy to keep Yu-Na down by giving her URs.

**hikki** · 12-04-2009, 09:44 AM

From icenetwork news
"I saw in slow motion in the kiss and cry the triple-triple and I thought it was not downgraded, so I don't know what happened," Kim said. "I will check my performance today in the hotel. I think it was a good fight. Maybe I can forget about it tomorrow."

**justaskatingfan** · 12-04-2009, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by figurejennah

Yuna's video is up already. I guess Korean fans are fast...... lol
I was watching it live online, too, so the screen was quite fuzzy and I couldn't see well, but this is much better.

To me, her 3-3 looks just as good as the one at TEB or SA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAqni0POd90

Look at where the landing skate boot was pointing just before the quick twist on her 3T landing( usually when the blade made contact with the ice) and it does suggest UR.

**rossdale** · 12-04-2009, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by evangeline

No, I was asking you to try determining the exact rotation of a jump, down to 1 or 2 decimal places, using only your eyes on an HD-TV in a limited amount of time (like no more than 3-4 minutes).

It's not as easy as you think it is.

Come on. Let me demonstrate proposal.

1. Put a referece point in arena. This will be degree 0
2. Put a laser/touch sensor in a player's blades. It will position the angle of take off with respect to the reference point. The revolution is only counted for jumping period. Jump period is determined by a touch sensior. An actuator can be used for the sensor. Any type of piezoelectric material converts pressure to the electrical signal. After land, the sensor detects the angle of landing
3. The count the rovolution can be easily calculated by difference btw take off and landing angle.

Seriously, If someone gives me a fund, I can come up with proposal. Cost is the only thing which holds back this concept. Believe me. The current technologies can easiliy support this type of device. It is just matter of demands and costs.

**hikki** · 12-04-2009, 09:51 AM

From the same icenetwork article
"[The jump] felt slightly off when I went into the air, so I did a double loop," Ando said. "I really wanted to do that triple-triple! But I went on with my program, and only thought about nailing my triple flip. I also missed my [layback] spin: my left edge slipped."

I LOVE her attitude, the fact she really wanted 3/3.

**prettykeys** · 12-04-2009, 09:54 AM

rossdale, I don't think the Figure Skating federations have enough money to invest in technology of that level.

Cute idea, though.

And there is something strange to me about bringing in such a component into a Figure Skating competition, for some reason.

**gourry** · 12-04-2009, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by rossdale

Come on. Let me demonstrate proposal.

1. Put a referece point in arena. This will be degree 0
2. Put a laser/touch sensor in a player's blades. It will position the angle of take off with respect to the reference point. The revolution is only counted for jumping period. Jump period is determined by a touch sensior. An actuator can be used for the sensor. Any type of piezoelectric material converts pressure to the electrical signal. After land, the sensor detects the angle of landing
3. The count the rovolution can be easily calculated by difference btw take off and landing angle.

Seriously, If someone gives me a fund, I can come up with proposal. Cost is the only thing which holds back this concept. Believe me. The current technologies can easiliy support this type of device. It is just matter of demands and costs.

Wow, that was quick! When I wrote someday someone comes up with something, I meant someday in 10 years or so.

Anyway, the thing is that do skaters demand this kind of device?

There are so many skaters who minimize underrotation by maximizing prerotation. This "device" just calculates the actual rotation in the air therefore may reveal some inconvenient truth.

**janetfan** · 12-04-2009, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by justaskatingfan

Look at where the landing skate boot was pointing just before the quick twist on her 3T landing( usually when the blade made contact with the ice) and it does suggest UR.

What else is new? So many of the 3x3's are short and if they keep calling them this tight we will see less and less of them.

Did it matter so much if Irina or Shiz were short on their second jump back in the day?
Or today if Mao, Joannie, Miki and now Yuna are a few degress short?

I am not so sure what ISU is thinking and they control the tech callers.

Do they think skating fans enjoy seeing less difficulty or an entire event where the Ladies are skating scared?

If they pull this crap at the Olympics they will lose even more fans.

sweethinker · 12-04-2009, 09:56 AM

Here is the clip of her SP today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBO1PBBF39M

Those who wish to look at the slow motion of her 3t may start from 4:49 or 5:03.

**lolita90** · 12-04-2009, 10:00 AM

I think sincerely that Yuna Kim is over-evaluated.
There are no doubts that her score (over 70's!!) is too inflated. In SA and GPX she even deserved less than 60's... plz.. she can't jump a normal 3F (only with wrong edge) and what about 3loops...
She is as normal as other skaters that participate in this competition..
I can't understand why you guys are complaining so much.

**Luciana** · 12-04-2009, 10:01 AM

I like to discuss Kim's 3-3 but I don't want to read about Korea vs Japan.
I know some techs or judges are unfair to several players and it is related to nationalism but it's not the only thing between Korea and Japan. It's common.
Please stop talking about it and only focus on the scores and players .

Originally Posted by justaskatingfan

Look at where the landing skate boot was pointing just before the quick twist on her 3T landing( usually when the blade made contact with the ice) and it does suggest UR.

And how about other players? I watched Ando's luts and she landed as same way as Kim. Why didn't she get downgraded.?
The techs are strict to only Wagner and Kim.
I don't understand why Wagner's 2axel was downgraded, either.

**katakwan** · 12-04-2009, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by figurejennah

Please, I didn't mention anything about the history, so let's not bring it to skating?? And I really thought today's tech was that Japanese lady Junko, and she was not, and people corrected me (she was referee or something.) It was the tech who gave Yuna "e" in 2008 COC.

Oh figurejennah~

Please calm down. I am feeling your pain, so sorry for it.
It's said NO judges gave -GOE to Yu-Na's 3-3 but 1.6 total today. Just out of judges' decisions, it might have no problem.

Let's simply think Technical Specialist Ms. Genius who gave e and ! to Yu-Na's F in 2008 CoC, must have disliked her.

**rossdale** · 12-04-2009, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by gourry

Wow, that was quick! When I wrote someday someone comes up with something, I meant someday in 10 years or so.

Anyway, the thing is that do skaters demand this kind of device?

There are so many skaters who minimize underrotation by maximizing prerotation. This "device" just calculates the actual rotation in the air therefore may reveal some inconvinient truth.

Acutally, that is a very good point. My proposal lacks of solution for pre rotation. I will think more and come up with solutions. Please keep providing any positive feedbacks.

sweethinker · 12-04-2009, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by lolita90

I think sincerely that Yuna Kim is over-evaluated.
There are no doubts that her score (over 70's!!) is too inflated. In SA and GPX she even deserved less than 60's... plz.. she can't jump a normal 3F (only with wrong edge) and what about 3loops...
She is as normal as other skaters that participate in this competition..
I can't understand why you guys are complaining so much.

I appreciate your kind comments. Next time, please try to bring some more conservative arguments.

**Luciana** · 12-04-2009, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by lolita90

I think sincerely that Yuna Kim is over-evaluated.
There are no doubts that her score (over 70's!!) is too inflated. In SA and GPX she even deserved less than 60's... plz.. she can't jump a normal 3F (only with wrong edge) and what about 3loops...
She is as normal as other skaters that participate in this competition..
I can't understand why you guys are complaining so much.

I partly agree Kim is one of the players who are loved by judges but
the score you mention is so low.

And the problem is not score but downgrade.
I think it's unfair Wagner's and Kim's are downgraded.