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Thread: Grand Prix Final: Ladies SP

  1. #376
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    Raging hyperboles aside, UR calls on what looked like real-time acceptable jumps were made last season. How many of you were shaking your fists when other ladies got the call? How many of you were flipping off over what looked like a good jump in real time and but got URed at instant replay?

    The question is really whether you're all upset over a bad judging call or upset because Yu-na got a bad call. If you truly about the first over the latter, yeah, I do hope that many of you will ride in like a white knight for EVERY "misjudged" skater.

    For these problems and complaints, I'm surprised there is no Universal tech caller from ISU, like a Nellie Kim in gymnastics, as the honcho who is called onto the floor when needed to make tough calls.

  2. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoPC2018 View Post
    You never can tell whether a jump is UR or not with just a snapshot photo. You actually have to see the point when the surface ice start to splash! ok?
    Usually when a skater lands on the toe pick first is a good indication of a UR. Some are glaringly obvious and some are in the gray area.

  3. #378
    Moving up the testing structure Kypma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoPC2018 View Post
    You never can tell whether a jump is UR or not with just a snapshot photo. You actually have to see the point when the surface ice start to splash! ok?
    Actually, you probably can. If, for example, a snapshot shows that the skater's toe pick is already in the ice before even reaching the quarter-turn point, then the jump is definitely under-rotated. If, on the other hand, the skater has rotated past that quarter-turn mark but is still in the air, then the jump wasn't under-rotated (assuming we are indeed looking at the final rotation, but that's pretty much implied here).

    The cases where it is undecided is if the skater's blade is already in contact with the ice after the quarter-turn mark, or if the skater is still in the air before the quarter-turn mark.

  4. #379
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkestMoon View Post
    Raging hyperboles aside, UR calls on what looked like real-time acceptable jumps were made last season. How many of you were shaking your fists when other ladies got the call? How many of you were flipping off over what looked like a good jump in real time and but got URed at instant replay?
    I have been angry about bad calls and the way in which underrotated jumps are graded since early 2007. I have been campaigning against this horrible judging constantly.

    Mathman can tell you this (with regards to my activity on this message board, in any case).

    2007 U.S. Nationals, when Kimmie Meissner received full credit for what was clearly an underrotated 3-3, is what set off bells and released the demons.

    Since then, we have seen major victims of jumps being downgraded. Yukari Nakano placing 4th at 2008 Worlds was a disgrace and showed how flawed CoP is.

    The current rule revision in CoP for negative GOE not being automatically given to underrotated jumps was partially my doing and I intend to push more changes through.

  5. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by figurejennah View Post
    I am not being nationalistic here, I am from the states........??

    I am sorry, but to be honest, I really cannot accept this downgrade with her 3T. Seriously, first her step, then her 3F, and now 3T. Now what?(And if it's that one/two same people who are giving these problems, then I will be bitter...... lol)

    And, Ando got positive GOE for her 3-2 (which was supposed to be 3-3). BAH...??
    Ando got +GOE for doing a great 3+2 with no underrotation or shabby landing. +GOE doesn't apply not only to skater to do 3+3. Then how would you defend your case for skaters getting +1, +2GOE on solo jump?

    Most video replay doesn't really show any other wise. Maybe the tech caller is looking for when the ACTUAL middle of the blade touch the ice. Not the tip of the blade.

  6. #381
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    The downgrade call was fair.

  7. #382
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    The downgrade call was unfair.

  8. #383
    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by formersk8ter View Post
    The downgrade call was fair.
    Quote Originally Posted by ehdtkqorl123 View Post
    The downgrade call was unfair.
    That is the way of sport. The short program is over the scores are recorded. I am sure that YuNa is now focusing on her long program. Wishing YuNa and all the ladies good luck in the free.

  9. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    I have been angry about bad calls and the way in which underrotated jumps are graded since early 2007. I have been campaigning against this horrible judging constantly.

    Mathman can tell you this (with regards to my activity on this message board, in any case).

    2007 U.S. Nationals, when Kimmie Meissner received full credit for what was clearly an underrotated 3-3, is what set off bells and released the demons.

    Since then, we have seen major victims of jumps being downgraded. Yukari Nakano placing 4th at 2008 Worlds was a disgrace and showed how flawed CoP is.

    The current rule revision in CoP for negative GOE not being automatically given to underrotated jumps was partially my doing and I intend to push more changes through.
    I didn't realize you're a part of the ISU. I find it hard to believe that Meissner was the only one getting ratified 3-3 and single 3s that was UR. Skaters have been getting away with URs back in 6.0 as well.

    I'm not sure if you're saying that Nakano deserved to be higher or lower. If anything, Miki Ando has not gotten anything in her favor. She's had several triple loops nailed upon closer inspection but looks good in real time. The hot debate last year was when is it appropriate to look at replay and when is it okay to go by just real time. Ubers are screaming for just real-time because their favorite's scores were hurt by replay and that's just it. They're only screaming for fair judging because it's about their favorites and not about the benefit of the sport.

  10. #385
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkestMoon View Post
    It's worst than ever, especially with the "I don't mean to bring XXX up but...." and "No offense but...." as a false pretense of objectivity.
    I love it when someone does that. Because it gives me a neat little window into that person's mindset, not to mention a delicious opportunity to slam them for their cognitive dissonance if I feel so inclined... (I know I'm not supposed to, teehee.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    And, wow, that screenshot stretched my post out weirdly.

    Good to have a clear visual, though.

    Mods, PM me if you need it to be resized.
    Please, do not resize Post #372, that thing needs to be seen by every single person visiting this thread and those loser YouTube'rs who post slo-mo "video proof" of "underrotation" and have no idea what they're talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkestMoon View Post
    How many of you were shaking your fists when other ladies got the call? How many of you were flipping off over what looked like a good jump in real time and but got URed at instant replay?
    A lot of people actually did. BoP is one of the most consistent and vocal, for example.

    I did here and there for other skaters, but YuNa's 3-3 downgrade is the worst I have seen. Of course I'm inclined to look more carefully when it's my favourite skater, but I don't know if anyone else will show me an example of a worse call.

    How about you give us an example of a worse call?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    I have been angry about bad calls and the way in which underrotated jumps are graded since early 2007. I have been campaigning against this horrible judging constantly.

    Mathman can tell you this (with regards to my activity on this message board, in any case).

  11. #386
    Yeah! Lets get this party started. enlight78's Avatar
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    well after pause /play/pausing about a hundred time i would say her toe-pic was touching the ice about 100 degrees short of rotation and then the rest of the blade at 45 degrees. I would consider this UR. I think Miki got lucky;

  12. #387
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    [QUOTE=figurejennah;437098]Ugh, I understand how you feel if you were Scottish, Korean and Japanese! (My Korean and Japanese friends, they hang out well but whenever history comes up, they are like cats and dogs... lol -- which I perfectly understand why.)


    I hate to bring Korea/Japan thing in here, but no one can deny the fact that nationality does play some tricks in figure skating. That's why we have a new system, and we continue to question if it is working.




    Do you really hate to bring " Korea-Japan " thing here? If I am not wrong,
    it is you who started criticising a Japanese referee and everyone here explained that she wasn't tech-controller today, you insisted that Yuna's score was low because of her.

    I love Yuna but she didn't skate better today and her 3-3 wasn't her usual 3-3.

    But lately, I haven't really cared about scores. What I love Yuna is not because she gets 76 points, but she is talented and tries 3-3 which no female skater tries now.

  13. #388
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    YuNa's 3Lz-3T had a less rotated 3T at TEB 2009 than her combo last night (and still within 1/4), and I recall pointing this out. It was rightfully not downgraded.

    Take a look.

    YuNa is not supporting her weight in the frame that has been screenshotted by BoP, nor would she be making a mark on the ice in that moment.


  14. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkestMoon View Post
    Raging hyperboles aside, UR calls on what looked like real-time acceptable jumps were made last season. How many of you were shaking your fists when other ladies got the call? How many of you were flipping off over what looked like a good jump in real time and but got URed at instant replay?

    The question is really whether you're all upset over a bad judging call or upset because Yu-na got a bad call. If you truly about the first over the latter, yeah, I do hope that many of you will ride in like a white knight for EVERY "misjudged" skater.
    Especially all those suspiciously new accounts created today with no other posts besides ones raging over Yu-Na's 3T and how those evil Japanese are out to get her

  15. #390
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Quote Originally Posted by enlight78 View Post
    well after pause /play/pausing about a hundred time i would say her toe-pic was touching the ice about 100 degrees short of rotation and then the rest of the blade at 45 degrees. I would consider this UR. I think Miki got lucky;
    Well...I don't think it is underrotated.
    Anyway, your saying even reflects that, if any technical specialist and replay operator are really looking for a chance to get her jumps downgraded, they can make a rather easy DG decision on a flaw-less flaw that you even had to repeat pause/play/pause about hundred times (maybe still confused?).

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