Grand Prix Final: Ladies SP

[daisies]

Just watched on Universal Sports. IMO the judging seems correct. Just because Miki was "clean" doesn't mean she should be miles ahead of Yuna, because that assumes everything else is equal, and it's not. For example, Yuna's layback looked to have four features, so it should have gotten level 4. Miki's layback had one feature (8 revs in one position) so it should have gotten level 1, and my guess is it also got minus GOEs. Then Miki's PCS were probably affected because she stood there for an eternity before the steps -- obviously that layback was supposed to have more features (sideways-leaning spin was one she attempted but didn't hold for the required 3 revs since it was badly centered from the start), but she exited early and the music had to catch up.

Miki skated great, for sure, and deserves to be 1st, but Yuna's basic skating -- her posture, especially -- is so much better. JMHO.

[DesertRoad]

Having done endless frame-by-frame replays of jump landings by now (thanks a lot, COP), I will say that Yuna's 3t landing is exactly the same as any of her other successful 3t landings, with a bobble on the glide out that came after the landing. Maybe the last bit is what confused the tech caller? It definitely did not deserve a downgrade.

And on the topic of frame-by-frame jump analysis, congrats to Miki for completely fixing her lip! She used to lip, right? It's hard to believe now. Miki joins a very rare club of female skaters who can land all 6 triples in competition cleanly.

[rossdale]

I'm not too sure I see that so much as I see a horde of Yuna uberfans showing up to protest her DG. I mean come on guys, 65 points for a pop AND a DG is still INSANELY high.

R.D.

Please see the point. I am not complaining that Yuna lost her SP yesterday. I am talking about the justificaion for DG ing her wonderful 3:3 jump. Just use your common sense. How can you explain the gap btw technical specialist's DG call and 1.6 GOE from 9 judges? You are apparently missing the point. Please get to the point. I would argue even if Yuna won SP with 20 point lead. !!!!!!!!!!!

[so_proud]

No, I am not kidding. Yu-Na didn't make TWO MAJOR mistakes in the SP like singling a triple and under-rotating her triple toe in the jump combo either in the Worlds SP. Without question, when both are clean, Kim definitely beats Ando, hands down, but Yu-Na was far from clean in this SP and she is way too close in the scores with a clean Miki. If Yu-Na went clean and only scored less than 1 point above a 2 major mistakes skate by Miki, I have a feeling you'd be questioning the placements too.

Let's make it clear. Yuna didn't make two major mistakes here but just one (singled flip). The other mistake, in my opinion, was made by the technical panel.

Have you seen her SP, by the way? Her SP was great except the poped flip.

[Blades of Passion]

Having done endless frame-by-frame replays of jump landings by now (thanks a lot, COP), I will say that Yuna's 3t landing is exactly the same as any of her other successful 3t landings, with a bobble on the glide out that came after the landing. Maybe the last bit is what confused the tech caller? It definitely did not deserve a downgrade.

This is a BIG problem I see when it comes to underrotation calls.

When there is some kind of jiggle after a jump has already been rotated, technical specialists suddenly feel the need to downgrade the jump. With Yu-Na's 3-3 here there was no problem at all; the blade simply swung around quickly after landing.

I recently re-watched Evan Lysacek's 3Axel that was downgraded this year at Skate America in the SP...he actually made the rotation. It was a bit short, but past the 1/4 turn mark. His problem with the jump (other than his crappy technique of spinning into the jump rather than jumping and THEN rotating) was that he landed on the inside edge, which caused the landing to skid and look like it was an underrotated landing.

[rossdale]

Let's make it clear. Yuna didn't make two major mistakes here but just one (singled flip). The other mistake, in my opinion, was made by the technical panel.

Have you seen her SP, by the way? Her SP was great except the poped flip.

I can not agree more with so_proud.

[museksk8r]

Let's make it clear. Yuna didn't make two major mistakes here but just one (singled flip). The other mistake, in my opinion, was made by the technical panel.

Have you seen her SP, by the way? Her SP was great except the poped flip.

I have seen the SPs of Yu-Na, Miki, and Joannie (and I'm in the process of watching Alena's but waiting on it to buffer). I guess more than anything, I'm just so frustrated over Yu-Na's problems with the 3flip this season; 3 times now, it has failed her. I'm frustrated that Joannie is not skating up to her capabilities too. Yu-Na is truly a beautiful lady with wonderful expression and exquisite speed and playful, willowy quality to her musical interpretation and body line. She captures the character of this music so well and she deservingly gets high levels on her elements! I agree that aside from the two jump errors, it really was a beautifully skated program. It just saddens me to see these skaters not skate up to their potential.

[DarkestMoon]

You should buy a pair of glasses. You need to corrrect your eye-sight. Do you have a decent health insurance to cover it?

Knock it off with the personal attacks.

How can you explain the gap btw technical specialist's DG call and 1.6 GOE from 9 judges?

Because the judges can give or take GOEs away by their own call of UR. The tech specialist can call UR but his own judgement and it'll show up on protocols BUT the judges will not see the UR mark. Thus, they'll have to decide on their own and give or take GOEs accordingly. This removes the double penalty.

That's what people have been asking for last season, to remove the double penalty and take away some from for the tech caller.

You gotta be kidding. I see huge gap between Miki's mechanical/boring style and Yuna's elegant/exciting style. Are you kidding? Did you forget about the difference in the score when Yuna won 2009 world title? She is in her class of her own.

Style has influence but there's no literal score component for that. Did you forget that 2009 worlds judging was rather chillaxed in comparison to the year before? From Joannie's 69 to Mao's ratified 3-3, despite it being clearly URed. The year before, the judging was considerably harsher, except Carolina got the benefit of it in Europe.

You're missing museksk8r's and Red Dog's point. The SP is the program where everyone is essentially doing the same reqs (jumps may vary). It true is a check list program, both in the CoP and in the 6.0. The point is that, UR aside, Yu-na missed the flip. Steps into a solo triple is a requirement. What they're saying is that her score is still rather high, despite missing a requirement.

[rossdale]

I have seen the SPs of Yu-Na, Miki, and Joannie (and I'm in the process of watching Alena's but waiting on it to buffer). I guess more than anything, I'm just so frustrated over Yu-Na's problems with the 3flip this season; 3 times now, it has failed her. I'm frustrated that Joannie is not skating up to her capabilities too. Yu-Na is truly a beautiful lady with wonderful expression and exquisite speed and playful, willowy quality to her musical interpretation and body line. She captures the character of this music so well and she deservingly gets high levels on her elements! I agree that aside from the two jump errors, it really was a beautifully skated program. It just saddens me to see these skaters not skate up to their potential.

museksk8r. Please provide the basis of your accusation that Yuna made two mistakes yesterday. It does not make sense at all.

[museksk8r]

museksk8r. Please provide the basis of your accusation that Yuna made two mistakes yesterday. It does not make sense at all.

The tech panel downgraded her; it's said and done. Tomorrow with the LP is a new day. Yu-Na must put this behind her and skate her best. End of story!

[rossdale]

Knock it off with the personal attacks.



Because the judges can give or take GOEs away by their own call of UR. The tech specialist can call UR but his own judgement and it'll show up on protocols BUT the judges will not see the UR mark. Thus, they'll have to decide on their own and give or take GOEs accordingly. This removes the double penalty.

That's what people have been asking for last season, to remove the double penalty and take away some from for the tech caller.



Style has influence but there's no literal score component for that. Did you forget that 2009 worlds judging was rather chillaxed in comparison to the year before? From Joannie's 69 to Mao's ratified 3-3, despite it being clearly URed. The year before, the judging was considerably harsher, except Carolina got the benefit of it in Europe.

You're missing museksk8r's and Red Dog's point. The SP is the program where everyone is essentially doing the same reqs (jumps may vary). It true is a check list program, both in the CoP and in the 6.0. The point is that, UR aside, Yu-na missed the flip. Steps into a solo triple is a requirement. What they're saying is that her score is still rather high, despite missing a requirement.

Jumps are not the only requirement for SP. There are spins, steps and PCSs. You are still missing my point. I am talking about DGing her jump.

[DragonPhoenix]

Er... Sorry, but I can't possibly agree with you.
I suggest you get a chance to see them compete right at the scene.
If you can't tell the difference after that, I suggest you go see an eye doctor ASAP. I was totally blown away by Yu-na's skating. Faster, higher, more powerful than anybody else. Such a beautiful skater.

I agree with Marie_S. Before I saw the live competition of Miki and Yuna at 2008 SA, I thought that they were in the same league. However, it was not. There is clearly huge gap btw two. Of course I liked Miki's powerful jumps and skatings.

Oh really, I suggest you open your mind a little before telling others to see an eye doctor. Maybe your eyes could use a little adjusting as well. There is such a thing as different taste, although I can see you forgot about that.

In my opinion, they are both great skaters, and there are other great skaters as well. My favorite is Miki, but I like both Miki and YuNa.

Here are quotes from people who saw both Miki and YuNa at last Worlds.

You’re welcome to read the full reports at the Live - Random posting/musings from L.A and Practice Reports-3/22 in this forum


Here are some quotes

Standouts to me were:

1. Miki Ando: just fabulous. Very elegant and spot on with her jumps. The first competitor to hit the triple-triple combo. Left me breathless that she did it! Her doing the combo was almost like a statement "Move over girlies, the big guns are in the building." A relief after the number of falls that I saw that day.


5. Yu-Na Kim: fantastic!! Really on fire, technically superb, deserves the top spot, no doubt. Her triple-triple combo was authoritative and confident. Her skate was perfection and she looked well-trained.

and from the practice reports

Ando looked wonderful and her posture & stroking, which look so labored on TV, didn't look bad in person. Didn't do a whole of jumps but they were big & nicely landed when she did attempt them.

Miki looked great. Her jumps are so big and she is so slender and pretty in real life.

These are just a few. There are so many others who have reported similar things when they saw Miki live.

That is a fact.

[DarkestMoon]

It just saddens me to see these skaters not skate up to their potential.

Most of the top ladies have at least four years of CoP programs and training under their belts; some even a bit more. The CoP (combined with the skaters' competitive drives) is physically exhausting and of course, during the Olympic year, athletes train harder, instead of smarter. The fatigue is going to set in eventually. After this season, I wouldn't be surprised if the next season is going to start rather slow.

[Phoenix347]

I almost feel like this thread should be now closed... so much angry back and forth. I don't like seeing this here.

[i love to skate]

I'm frustrated that Joannie is not skating up to her capabilities too.

I agree that Joannie has not skated up to her capabilities this year. She has been to Asia three times this season already though and it is around a 14 hour flight to Japan. Not an excuse but just pointing it out the travel and jet leg could be a factor.

Also, even if Joannie doesn't been skating up to her potential I love that she is a fighter - she fought through that short program! Just as she fought through her long program in China and fought through bad take offs on some of her lutzes - for example; last year's short at Worlds and this year's Skate Canada Lp. It is an admirable quality in her - even if a program isn't perfect I love to see her fight for every jump and landing.