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Thread: JGPF Ice Dance

  1. #31
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Yes, but unthinkable in one country is very thinkable in another.

    I recall Winkler and Lohse doing Let My People Go dressed up as slaves, not to mention A&P's OGM winning Martin Luther King speech.

    By the way, are either I&K Jewish?

    I don't think Jr. Dance has been this good since 2006, when V&M, D&W and C&L were the top 3 at the JGPF:

    http://www.tracings.net/2006jgpf.html

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by icedancexpert View Post
    I
    As it is ice dance, there is no doubt in my mind that politics may have played a role in how the results turned out. First of all, the U.S. has won the past two JW titles in ice dance and they won the junior final last year. This can't be pleasing to several countries in particular. Also, with Davis/White (or even if V/M had won) winning the senior event before the junior event even started, it would be unprecedented for there to be an American/North American sweep of the dance events.
    Oh, boy, another round of snots about politiking!
    Always happens when people can't deal with favorite team's loss. And I should already got used to it.

    Do you really think Shibs were better than two Russian teams? Do you really think their choreography is something interesting compared to Russians? Do you really think they came anywhere close to Russians in term of emotional interpretation of the program?
    To me they're great technicians and sweet kids but not more so far. Wish them good luck and hard work on their emotional side.

    Also [color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color] about I/K and all these talks about them not to be Jews. Do you really think only Jews have a right to interpret this theme? Or you all as ignorant as IN's writers who have no idea how many Russians died in Nazi camps together with Jews?

  3. #33
    mmmmm....Donut spin :) Kimmie Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fashionista View Post
    Oh, boy, another round of snots about politiking!
    Always happens when people can't deal with favorite team's loss. And I should already got used to it.

    Do you really think Shibs were better than two Russian teams? Do you really think their choreography is something interesting compared to Russians? Do you really think they came anywhere close to Russians in term of emotional interpretation of the program?
    To me they're great technicians and sweet kids but not more so far. Wish them good luck and hard work on their emotional side.

    Also [color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color][color=red]*[/color] about I/K and all these talks about them not to be Jews. Do you really think only Jews have a right to interpret this theme? Or you all as ignorant as IN's writers who have no idea how many Russians died in Nazi camps together with Jews?
    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion in an open discussion forum
    That means sometimes people disagree with yours.

    As for I/K, the issue is not whether they are qualified to interpret nazi atrocities, but whether it is a suitable theme for figure skating.
    I personally don't think so. I think I/K went too far with her concentration camp uniform and simulating death by shooting. Its not appropriate for figure skating.
    Maybe it would have worked better as an exhibition program.

  4. #34
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    I really don't understand the uproar over I/K's music and program choice. I can recall numerous people who have skated to the same music...including German's last year! Were people this upset when S/S debuted their program last year? I don't recall any uproar, and I don't think there should have been.

    I thought they were extremely mature with their interpretation. The program, IMO, was moving and beautiful.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmie Fan View Post
    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion in an open discussion forum
    That means sometimes people disagree with yours.

    As for I/K, the issue is not whether they are qualified to interpret nazi atrocities, but whether it is a suitable theme for figure skating.
    I personally don't think so. I think I/K went too far with her concentration camp uniform and simulating death by shooting. Its not appropriate for figure skating.
    Maybe it would have worked better as an exhibition program.
    As the person above said, Schindler's List was used for YEARS before this even by a pair team representing Germany. And how many "deaths" to we have in skating as well. As for her chose of clothes, I actually kind of give her credit for being willing to go out there NOT all dressed up and with if you noticed no makeup etc, in a sport that is all about the glam.

    I found that throughout the performance while they were on the ice their demeanor was appropriate too. . I don't see the big deal while after her performance was over that she smiled at the kiss and cry.

    Whether the subject is appropriate or not, I thought it was clear they took the subject seriously.

  6. #36
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    I agree with bek - I thought they handled the subject very maturely and appropriately especially considering they're only 15/18 years old. Elena herself said in an interview that she knew the program would be controversial but that they wanted to take it on. I also found their interpretation moving.

    But whether you like the program or not, the fact that they have amazing basic skating is undeniable. They covered the ice with great speed and were halfway across the rink in a couple of strokes. No other team (including, yes, the Shibutanis) did that. Their lifts and footwork were also outstanding. Amazing potential in this couple. I would have given them the gold.

    I don't think that the choreography of their program did the Shibutanis any justice. It's very open and nothing about it says tango, aside maybe one lift. I agree also that while they are fantastic technicians, they do need to work more on the emotional side of their skating. I think that the fact that they skated after I/K highlighted this. I don't have any problem with the judges putting them behind I/K in the free dance (though personally, I would have had M/K third).

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingbc View Post
    I really don't understand the uproar over I/K's music and program choice. I can recall numerous people who have skated to the same music...including German's last year! Were people this upset when S/S debuted their program last year? I don't recall any uproar, and I don't think there should have been.

    I thought they were extremely mature with their interpretation. The program, IMO, was moving and beautiful.
    It's NOT the music I object to, though I will say I have yet to see a Schindler's List program I really love. The score to Schindler's List is so unbearably sad that I'd much rather be with my own thoughts as opposed to figure skating (which seems so trivial in comparison). For another similar situation, Brian Joubert skating to Safri Duo doesn't do anything for me because frankly, if I'm listening to Safri Duo, I'm gonna be dancing my ownself.

    a) When Anissina/Peizarat used Martin Luther King Jr.'s speech, they did several things correctly. Firstly, the used it in tandem with a larger theme (of freedom/liberty). It used the speech, but it wasn't specifically about the Civil Rights Movement/MLK. So they paid attention to the mood, texture and cadence of the speech which lent the whole thing a wonder oral quality (unsurprising, since MLK was one of the great orators of modern times). Additionally, the little nuances they brought to the skating helped (A/P at their best are better than I/K now. Not an insult or even a fair comparison, but if you're gonna do something gutsy like that, you'd better have the skills to back it up) - in particular, I loved the pendulum lift. And finally, they didn't condescend or look down on the subject.

    b) No, there wasn't much uproar about I/K's program. But if you go back to the thread where they debuted it on the JGP, you'll see that I'm pretty upset about it. So I'm consistent in that regard.

    c) So, what do I/K do wrong?
    i: The Costumes
    bekalc, you give credit for them going a more "de-glam" route. I'll argue the opposite. By her wearing and dancing in what essentially amounts to ghetto-chic, she almost glamorizes the holocaust, precisely because she's wearing the concentration camp uniform in an environment that is largely glamorous. If she were to wear it on a runway, I'd be up in arms. I don't see how what essentially amounts to posing, dancing and preening in the concentration camp uniform is any different.

    ii: The Music
    It's not Schindler's List. It's the inclusion of the gunshots. It's unecessary, jarring and COMPLETELY destroys any illusion/story they're telling.

    iii: The Skaters
    Simply speaking, as skilled as they are (loved their CD and OD at the JGP debut this season), they aren't at the level required (for me, I should add) to pull this program off. I don't doubt that their hearts are in the right place, but I don't think they even come close to achieving what they need to for this program to work.

  8. #38
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    i: The Costumes
    bekalc, you give credit for them going a more "de-glam" route. I'll argue the opposite. By her wearing and dancing in what essentially amounts to ghetto-chic, she almost glamorizes the holocaust, precisely because she's wearing the concentration camp uniform in an environment that is largely glamorous. If she were to wear it on a runway, I'd be up in arms. I don't see how what essentially amounts to posing, dancing and preening in the concentration camp uniform is any different.
    If it was on a runway they'd be calling it high fashion, which would be ridiculous and offensive. In this case, they are portraying a Holocaust victim and so I don't see it as glamorizing. I mean is it glamorizing to have that kind of costume in a movie??? Or on a theater stage?

  9. #39
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    I don't think they glamorized anything about the holocaust. If anything, they reminded people of the brutal reality of the events that occurred. They didn't trivialize the story and kept a very mature expression and interpretation throughout their program. I applaud them for taking on such a heavy program.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    If it was on a runway they'd be calling it high fashion, which would be ridiculous and offensive. In this case, they are portraying a Holocaust victim and so I don't see it as glamorizing. I mean is it glamorizing to have that kind of costume in a movie??? Or on a theater stage?
    No, but movies and theatre are artforms. Ice dancing is a sport, not an art.

  11. #41
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    No, but movies and theatre are artforms. Ice dancing is a sport, not an art.
    Ice Dancing is both-sport and art.

  12. #42
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    And that's where we fundamentally disagree.

  13. #43
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    And that's where we fundamentally disagree.
    If it wasn't an art, people wouldn't be talking about the importance of artistry...

  14. #44
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    I had more of a problem with the combination of music choice for I/K. I wish they had just stuck to Schindler's list, rather than combining it with Fiddler on the Roof. They are two different stories, so I felt like they should have stuck to one music choice.

    In terms of the Shibs deserving to win. I didn't really like either Russian couple's free dance. What I did like from these teams was their speed. I felt like they were faster than the Shibs. With that said, I can't think of a Junior team this season that can beat the polish of the Shibs. Their FD is very difficult and portrays the character of tango so well. It's one of my favorite tango programs.

    I personally felt that I/K had shallower edges that the Shibs, but like I said, they had wonderful speed. It was an okay program. I wasn't really offended by it; there are a lot of people using this piece of music this year on the Junior and Senior circuit. I can see being shot at the end being a little much...

    The blues FD I felt was only okay as well. I liked their OD better. It wasn't something I really got in to, but that's only my opinion. I really liked this team for their very fast twizzles and speed.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by icedancer18 View Post
    I had more of a problem with the combination of music choice for I/K. I wish they had just stuck to Schindler's list, rather than combining it with Fiddler on the Roof. They are two different stories, so I felt like they should have stuck to one music choice.
    here is where the original idea came from
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTCRa...eature=related

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