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Thread: Grand Prix Final: Mens LP

  1. #226
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    Russian Team is selected by Russian Nationals, the gold medalist for sure and the second or third spot might be judged by their performace at euros as well if there is a tie, I dont see the big difference.
    Evan went as US bronze medalist in worlds and won the competition, I dont see it hurt his confidence. Of course everybody wants to be also the national champion as they hit the ice, I have no reasons to believe otherwise.
    We were just talking if nationals are more prestigious than grand prix series and I think if you are a top skater winning an international competition it counts .
    Yes you are right from a European pov..
    And Evan could finish third at US Natls and still make the podium in Vancouver.

    But to American fans and the public our own National title is more important than GP or 4CC. You don't get it because you are not from the USA.

    I am not saying this is right or that it makes sense from a strategic pov.
    It is just our tradition and the way it is. Nationals are only topped by Worlds and Olympics. The GP and 4CC don't come close in the minds of casual fans or the people here who typically watch every four years. They don't even know what 4CC is and have limited interest in the GP's.
    Last edited by janetfan; 12-06-2009 at 08:05 AM.

  2. #227
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinymavy15 View Post
    What is up with the tech calling/judging at this event? evan gets a season's record for a with a freeskate with a popped jump and a sloppy triple axel and no quad? sorry that is absurd and I am huge Evan fan. I think Oda should have actually won the event...had had pretty much the same number of mistakes that Evan did in the freeskate but the quality of his other stuff is great. It should have been close, but I would have put Oda in first after the free.
    In terms of placements for both segments of the competition I would say:

    SP:

    1. Takahashi
    2. Lysacek
    3. Weir
    4. Oda
    5. Abbott
    6. Verner

    LP:

    1. Abbott
    2. Oda
    3. Weir
    4. Lysacek
    5. Takahashi
    6. Verner

    The top 5 is an exact inverse between the two programs. Funny.

    In terms of the overall rankings I would put Oda ahead of Lysacek, but only slightly.

    Weir and Abbott would only be slightly below both of them in 3rd and 4th as well.

    Takahashi showed that he is clearly the best if he skates to full potential, though. Really hope he delivers at the Olympics.

  3. #228
    Tripping on the Podium
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    I'm late, but congrats to the medalists!

    Pity that Takahashi wasn't able to kick Lysacek's a** with a brilliant performance, instead he had to wipe the ice with his own a** - typical.

    I'm glad Weir made the podium though.

  4. #229
    Yeah! Lets get this party started. enlight78's Avatar
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    I understand the prestige annd tradition of our Nationals but i think it is sad that USFA put so much weight for olympic selection. The whole idea a basing something on one compitition is asking for a fluke

    if the top rank skaters automatically went to worlds no matter the national standing i wonder how much prestige nationals would have
    Last edited by enlight78; 12-06-2009 at 09:40 AM.

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by enlight78 View Post
    I understand the prestige annd tradition of our Nationals but i think it is sad that USFA put so much weight for olympic selection. The whole idea a basing something on one compitition is asking for a fluke

    if the top rank skaters automatically went to worlds no matter the national standing i wonder how much prestige nationals would have
    I could say the exact same thing about the Olympics. "What a shame to put so much weight on how the SP and LP came out. Maybe world rankings should enter into the Olympic podium."

    See - that sounds just as silly to me as making Nationals a season long achievement.

    It is not - and neither are the WC's or Olympics. At some point in time a skater has to lay it out there and win a medal or lose.
    ISU rankings are a joke imo and would have to be changed to be more accurate.



    I
    Last edited by janetfan; 12-06-2009 at 10:15 AM.

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kunstrijdster View Post
    Funny and true



    Don't deprive me of the one last straw a Tomas Verner fan has these days
    Caro and Tomas carry the banner for the Euros and it is only right to keep them as top ranked skaters.

    Speaking of Tomas - I will watch NBC today - we have two hours of the GPF to watch this afternoon. I hope Scott is kinder to Tomas than Button was

    Maybe he wasn't quite ready to compete.
    Whatever, he is building quite a claim to be enshrined in the "Meltdown Hall of Fame." .

  7. #232
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kunstrijdster View Post
    Yuna's win at the GPF has actually propelled her into 1st. Caro a close 2nd. What did Button say? I did not know he was commentating the GP circuit.
    I meant from Tomas' LP meltdown at '08 Worlds. I think that was the meltdown that really set Button off. Maybe I am imagining it :laugh

  8. #233
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Just to confirm what Janetfan said about US Nationals, in the day (before internet and cable television), US Nationals and Olympics were the only skating you could be sure of seeing on TV. Even Worlds was at the whim of whatever network, if any, picked up the rights to televise Worlds. There were years that I only knew how people finished at Worlds by getting ahold of a copy of Skating magazine. Europeans. ptui. In 1988, CBS had the rights to Europeans and announced they would cover them. They had the ad on for Saturday and Sunday. The only thing covered was Witt's SP.

  9. #234
    End subjectivity,reduce PCS, fix the COP! schiele's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kunstrijdster View Post

    Don't deprive me of the one last straw a Tomas Verner fan has these days
    K, I feel your pain, believe me..
    As for Dick's comments, I actually thought they were a bit harsh but still relatively fair.. Undertraining must have been an issue for Tomas back then.
    And we can honestly say that going in to the GPF, we knew this was going to be the result. Tomas was never on for this event.
    Maybe Tomas and Jeremy are twin brothers seperated at the hospital, given their track records with consistency..

  10. #235
    End subjectivity,reduce PCS, fix the COP! schiele's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Just to confirm what Janetfan said about US Nationals, in the day (before internet and cable television), US Nationals and Olympics were the only skating you could be sure of seeing on TV. Even Worlds was at the whim of whatever network, if any, picked up the rights to televise Worlds. There were years that I only knew how people finished at Worlds by getting ahold of a copy of Skating magazine. Europeans. ptui. In 1988, CBS had the rights to Europeans and announced they would cover them. They had the ad on for Saturday and Sunday. The only thing covered was Witt's SP.
    I thought the lack of coverage on europeans and worlds was a recent phenomenon in the US??

  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Just to confirm what Janetfan said about US Nationals, in the day (before internet and cable television), US Nationals and Olympics were the only skating you could be sure of seeing on TV. Even Worlds was at the whim of whatever network, if any, picked up the rights to televise Worlds. There were years that I only knew how people finished at Worlds by getting ahold of a copy of Skating magazine. Europeans. ptui. In 1988, CBS had the rights to Europeans and announced they would cover them. They had the ad on for Saturday and Sunday. The only thing covered was Witt's SP.
    I think pov's here may depend on our ages and how long we have followed skating. I don't mean that being older means you know more but I think it makes one more aware of the tradition in USA of our Natls competition.

    For me, I am pretty much opposed to everything Speedy stands for. I am not a fan of his scoring system and not a big fan of the GP's other than the fact I enjoy watching skating. I do not put much weight intot the GP's simply because there is too much luck involved. If Rachael had Ashley's assignments this season she might be the one who went to the GPF. If Ashley had Caroline's assignments Ashley probably would not have made the final.

    I enjoy it but recognize it for what it is.

    Maybe you young'uns enjoy what Speedy has done to skating but I am not his fan and refuse to follow him to the "dark side."

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kunstrijdster View Post
    Don't deprive me of the one last straw a Tomas Verner fan has these days
    I wouldn't dream of doing that, but in all reality I think you must, somewhere deep down, acknowledge that for him to be ranked as #1 given his placements shows a weakness in the way the ISU standings are determined.

    That said, Tomas has so much potential it hurts to see him continually implode on the competitive ice. I hope he can pull it together.

  13. #238
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    "Maybe you young'uns enjoy what Speedy has done to skating but I am not his fan and refuse to follow him to the "dark side."

    Someone please tell me who "Speedy" is ?????

  14. #239
    Yeah! Lets get this party started. enlight78's Avatar
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    Well the thing is with US nationals; a Skater A won all the gp events including gp final could finish fourth at nationals for whatever reason and be denied a chance to compete at olympics or worlds; while a skater only medal being at nationals getting to go; If the Olympics and Worlds is such a big; and important competition something more then somewhat (bias )nationals should be equally considered in account in a skaters selection;

  15. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by enlight78 View Post
    Well the thing is with US nationals; a Skater A won all the gp events including gp final could finish fourth at nationals for whatever reason and be denied a chance to compete at olympics or worlds; while a skater only medal being at nationals getting to go; If the Olympics and Worlds is such a big; and important competition something more then somewhat (bias )nationals should be equally considered in account in a skaters selection;
    The fairest way is to have all of the top skaters at the same event marked by the same judges.

    There are too many variables for the GP series to carry any real weight imo.

    Looking at Evan's score yesterday and all of the howling that went on about it. Finaly people agreed with me that Evan is not to blame and that CoP scoring is wildly inconsistent.

    Then there was Joannie's dubious scores and Mirai's strange scores. There were easy events like COR and hard events like TEB for the Ladies.

    I could care less what international judges think of Evan in Tokyo.
    I want to see Evan, Jeremy, Johnny, Adam, Brandon and Ryan at the same event. Let the top three go to the Olympics.

    I feel the same way about the Ladies.

    Why should Alissa and Mirai bother to compete if some fans claim they are already eliminated by the randomness of the GP draw and wild scoring inconsistencies we saw all season.

    Let's have a real competition with all of our best skaters and see who wins it.

    Remember speedy wants skating to be more of a sport. What is wrong with a little fair and comparitive competition to see who comes out on top?

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