I was gonna change my name a week after joing GS but don't know how
Sometimes I do feel like old Bilbo fighting off the evil hoardes of Speedy's disciples.
After watching the GPF - the Men's and Ladies LP's on TV where I can see better than a Live stream I would say:
Akiko was my favorite and I would have given her 1st place in the LP.
I also think she was undermarked again in her SP.
I would have placed Jeremy 1st in the LP and Evan 2nd. I thought Oda was disappointing and he is not doing as much in between the jumps as Evan. His jumps are very good but his line is ...well he has no line. The men as small as Oda and Dai, even Johnny lack something for me.
Johnny skated good but he is no better and maybe not as good as he was 4 years ago. Nothing unique about him at all anymore and every single aspect of Jeremy's skating looks superior to Johnny's from jumps, spins, posture, transitions, musicality, extensions, choreo, execution.......
Most disappointing was Joannie.
Most overrated is Alena - little more than a junior skater with jumps which were missing today.
Miki has an ugly and distracting costume. Also below average posture, postions and extensions. Her choreo, like Oda's is a snooze after seeing it twice.
Yuna was disappointing and did not skate with passion and actually looked cautious to me.
Dai made more mistakes than any guy I saw this season. Terrible performance.
Mercifully, NBC did not show Tomas who might have made more mistakes than Dai
After watching it was not as great as the comments I read here and I thought Scott did a decent job as analyst. He said more than once the Ladies programs are too demanding and difficult for them to pull off. Scott would be 100% right about that imo.
He also seemed to like Akiko - but couldn't seem to control his Yuna raving today. I am a Yuna fan and don't mind it but I saw little to rave about Yuna's performance. It was far from her best.
Last edited by janetfan; 12-06-2009 at 02:21 PM.
Even when he's not up to par, I love watching Daisuke. You can tell just the way he moves from element to element that he's something special. I hope he's able to regain his form by Olympics, because although Oda's wonderful, Takahashi is just more complete and artistic to me.
Another thing that strikes me as I watch the men is that though I don't love Evan's style, I respect his skating. I admire his hard work and his never-say-die perseverance. I bet Frank Carroll is pleased to have someone who's so responsive to coaching. While it's true that some of Evan's main rivals weren't here this week, he did well enough to make me hope that he could (dare I say it) medal at the Olympics.
I love Jeremy's skating! It was wonderful except the fall on 4t. But he was brave to do it, not like Evan. What have put Evan above Jeremy in LP, and gave him the SB LP score with that 3axel-poped LP? I am puzzled. I know it was the judges who gave Evan the edge. However, it couldn't help but makes skating fans annoying Evan even more. He was so undeserving the marks he's got.
Jeremy still looks tall in this costume. I think his broad shoulders and long legs make him look tall. He is just so classic in looks and in skating. (Forget about the clown expressions at the K&C. That totally changes the mood of my every time I see it.)
Johnny wasn't the Johnny I liked on the ice any more. His program was too slow and simple to me. I agree that he touches his face too many times that makes me feel like I want to puke.. Don't like his LP.
Don't have time to comment other skaters for now.
I've read the slurs and slams on Evan's skills and scores and have tried to remain silent. I can do so no longer. To even hint that he's not doing the quad because he's afraid to put it in is more than I can take without a response.
Bravery has nothing to do with Evan and the quad. As Frank explained, Evan's foot injury last season was caused by overuse. So as not to have a re-occurance in the Olympic season, they are training the jump but placing greater emphasis on building other aspects of his skating - training smarter not harder.
This plan is paying dividends in improvements in his skating. By addressing and strengthening the rest, he has been very successful. Perhaps the changes are too subtle for an untrained eye, or for the eyes of those who don't choose to acknowldege that he HAS indeed gotten better and stronger. However, the judges have recognized the difference and are rewarding it accordingly.
As for inflated scores, IF that has been the case, it has been true, imo, for ALL the skaters not just those who some choose to single out, Evan seeming to be the primary "target." A totally undeserving one at that. As others have pointed out, it is indeed the judges who award the scores. Seems outrageous to blame the skater - whoever it may be.
Furthermore, Oda did not have a clean skate - he also popped an axel. Jeremy did not have a clean skate - he fell on the quad. Johnny was basically clean, but as others have pointed out, has lessor difficulty in some areas. We all know what unfortunate turn of events for Dai and Tomas. Evan did not have a clean skate either, as he readily admits.
It's useless to say "if" any of the aforementioned had skated clean, things would've been different. Of course that's true - if you assume that Evan would've still had the error. However, the same can be said of Evan. "IF" he hadn't popped the axel, his scores could've reached or surpassed the 170 mark.
"IF" doesn't figure in. What IS/WAS is what it was! All made mistakes. Evan has improved and strengthened his skills, preparing strong foundations in his programs so that when the time comes to add additional "tricks" the programs will be strong to support them. Smart planning to my way of thinking.
Frank is a master coach - he has a willing, determined and attentive student. No one trains better. (Before someone jumps on me thinking I'm saying others don't train well, let me say for the record that I know, and respect, as Evan does, that his competitors train diligently too.)
That said, together, Evan and Frank are making good things are happen. Give credit where credit is due. Some have, and for that I applaud and thank you. Objectivity here is very limited. Some don't even try.
Regardless of who comes out on top - at any event not just the Olympics, there will be some who will say ______ (insert name) wuzrobbed if their favorite doesn't win! OR _________ (insert name) was "gifted" by the judges if their least favorite does! Each may have different names in the blanks, but the complaints will be the same.
The men's field internationally is very strong. Each one has come out on top of the others at some point since the last Olympics. On any given day, anything can happen and anyONE of them could win.
As for me, it's no secret I'm a HUGE Evan fan, but I hope ALL competitors bring their A game to Vancouver and give the judges no "gray" area that leads to accusations of behind the door politicking. The athletes have spent years for this chance. Fans should respect ALL who have done so and at least speak with respect and greater consideration in their dissent.
Last edited by merrybari; 12-06-2009 at 06:49 PM.
I think Jenny and many others need to look closer at this and see why less active skaters like Johnny and Oda did not rack up as many points as Evan did.
Look at their spins, their steps, choreo and their interpretation. Yes, I just said interpretation.
It seems to me that Cop does not care so much about the quality of interpretation as much as the quantity of interpretation. It looks like busy skating with alot of arm motions and lots of bending over, leg kicks and many things that some of you don't like are being rewarded very highly by CoP.
I think many of you have a major gripe with the system and the judges but won't admit it.
I was upset after NHK when Joubert's superficial choreo, transitions and interpretation was scored as being equal to Jeremy. I still think it is utterly laughable to consider Joubert the artistic equal of Jeremy.
I think it is wrong to score Evan higher than Jeremy in those areas too.
And I also think it is wrong to give Plushy big marks for transitions that consist of nothing more than armflapping and crossovers.
But it feels wrong to pick on Plushy, Joubert or Evan when they are just skaters trying their hardest.
The gripe should be with Speedy, ISU and the judges.
(OT but I think the tech callers are ruining the Ladies with too many tight calls.)
I thought Merribari's post was fine.
I think all of the fans knocking Evan for his marks are dead wrong. I realize I was wrong for knocking Joubert's SP score at NHK..
The truth is that under CoP artistic achievement has been distorted beyond recognition to 6.0 fans.
Artistry used to stand for something more definable and now it has been reduced to "who can do the most of it." That is a faulty concept just as CoP scoring itself is based on an anti-artistic concept.
True skating artistry is never about "the most movement" it is only about the most beautiful and distinguishable movement. Great skating should not be about who can do the most elements but who can do the most beautiful and elegant elements.
Last edited by janetfan; 12-06-2009 at 09:17 PM.
1 Evan LYSACEK 159.60 75.60 84.00 8.40 8.10 8.50 8.55 8.45 0.00 #5
2 Jeremy ABBOTT 158.73 82.13 77.60 7.75 7.60 7.75 7.65 8.05 1.00 #2
Please help me out. It seems to me that Evan is milking it for every possible point. The maximum he milked was TES 75.60. But Jeremy got TES 82.13. How did Evan milk it for PCS 84.00?
Last edited by jennylovskt; 12-07-2009 at 12:04 AM.
I don't think anyone suggested that Evan Lysacek is a bad person or a bad skater. What people have written repeatedly is that he is not the greatest skater ever, or even the greatest now; that his programs aren't unusually good, even for IJS - and that therefore the judges have no business marking him and his programs as they do. This requires pointing out what areas in his skating are not so good as to justify those marks. If it were my favorite in this position, it would be tough for me to take, too. But my favorites, good as they may be, have never been marked like this. You rarely see PCS like that outside of ice dance.
Being critical of a skater or his scoring does not necessarily make you a "hater", and it's not out of line. "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything" is not in the forum guidelines. Lysacek has been singled out in this thread and the SA thread because his scoring in both events seemed out of touch with his performances.
As ImaginaryPogue correctly pointed out, if you think he is the only skater to have been singled out, do look at past threads, from this season and last, on Brian Joubert, Carolina Kostner, DomShabs, Yu-Na Kim, Patrick Chan, Virtue and Moir, Joannie Rochette, Evgeny Plushenko, even the Finnish ladies - it's a long list (I added to your examples, ImaginaryPogue ). I'm not saying you were involved in it; I don't remember who was. But much of it was far nastier than anything in this thread - remember "Program Canadian Scores"? Or people writing that they enjoyed seeing Brian Joubert fall on his 2A at Worlds? How about the suggestions that Speedy was responsible for Caro Kostner's marks?
(I will admit that personally, Frank Carroll really rubs me the wrong way with his endless conspiracy theories and wuzrobbing claims, and his disrespectful comments about certain skaters. I try not to hold it against his skaters. It's not easy.)
Sometimes as fans we have to look at our favorites' scores and admit that much as we enjoy their skating, much as we think they're great, that was excessive. This was excessive. Period. It has nothing to do with Evan's work ethic or with his commitment to skating. It's not a reflection on his character.
Hopefully in Vancouver, we'll see a strong competition and one that will be judged on merit.
Last edited by Buttercup; 12-07-2009 at 12:55 AM.