Grand Prix Final: Ladies LP | Page 14 | Golden Skate

Grand Prix Final: Ladies LP

Kypma

Final Flight
Joined
May 12, 2007
Anybody know why Joannie has dropped the 2A-2A sequence? She's done that for the last few years, now she only does 2A or 2A-2T. I would think she could rack up some extra points with an extra 2A.

It doesn't look good for her. I'm hoping she has an Elizabeth Manley moment, by lowering expectations with a series of bad performances and then saving the best for the Olympics. But it looks like the pressure is getting to her.

I think Miki Ando is looking like a good bet for gold. If she gets the 3L-3L and Yuna continues to make mistakes, she's got it in the bag I think.

I think Joannie stated earlier in the season that she plans a 2A-3T combination. Point-wise it's not a big difference, but the article in question said that when you add something technically, sometimes it can help with the PCS because the judges see you in a new light. Especially in this case, it's a combination ending in a triple jump.
 

DragonPhoenix

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 12, 2007
I was so pleased with the number of really good programs at this competition ; programs that stood out from the others and suited the skaters. As far as I could tell on my monitor,there was no problem with placement of elements or ice coverage , though you can't always tell 100%. Keeping that in mind..

My faves, in no particular order : Akiko's program just would not quit, and what a little firecracker she was. I think you can already see the young lady beginning to come out in her command of the character of the piece...Ashley's program was filled with so many beautiful positions and movements,and her expression to the music throughout was lovely. I don't know who her choreographer is, but hats off. Hope she gets the jump thing worked out... Joannie's program, though under performed , is another fave and uniquely Joannie. I believe this is Lori Nichol's work.. and completely different from what she's done for other skaters ( e.g. Alissa Czisny).. .For that matter, isn't Lori responsible for Yuna's program ? - also on my list of faves. Very Yuna, very Gershwin..a gem. All these skaters had from good to exquisite costumes, as well - probably from a variety of designers.

Leonova's program was OK with some very nice touches, but not a rave for me. Love her energy, her personality, abandon..hope they won't try to make her a Slutskaya clone.( The temptation must be there..) Let her be herself. Herself is already appealing..Costume ...meh..not offensive , not obscuring, but not particularly 'Chicago' and a bit too busy for me.

That leaves poor Miki's program. I do say poor Miki and I do say it's sad, because we'll never see the best that Miki is capable of unless / until she leaves Morozov...regardless of the scores she manages to garner.... This is my knock on him ; his choreography is all about creating and maintaining the Morozov brand, not about what suits the skater, what celebrates their unique qualities. Morozov is the star. He started out with top talent, thanks to his association with Tarasova , so I think there's some question as to how much he is responsible for their success, or they for his...Whether or not politics plays any part in the results or in the skater's motivation for seeking him out in the first place, I'll leave open. Even on the podium,it seems a harsh price to pay for a lovely and talented skater to have to stand there in what looks like a raunchy halloween costume next to a competitor who looks like she's been dressed by a top designer.

Maybe Miki could have a flash of inspiration and flee to Yuka Sato...


I strongly doubt that you have any genuine concern for Miki.

First of all, I noticed in your fist post that you did not congratulate Miki on her Silver, nor have any kind words for her at all.

And yet, you made sure to congratulate others.

No need to explain why you omitted her from your cheers. It’s clear.

That says it all right there, despite your attempt in this new post to hide it with words like lovely and talented.

Second, her character is Cleopatra. Of course the costume would be wild and exotic.

It’s Cleopatra !

There are plenty of people who love her costume.
I'll quote one of them from this very thread.

I liked a lot Miki's performance and I think she was really close to Yuna. Her program and costume have to be remembered. It was great.

People do have different taste . Whether you think it’s poor taste or not. Deal with it.

And from ice network, a post with a mention about choreography.


[/QUOTE]Besides the hand down on the one jump that was pretty darn awesome! Great footwork and choreography, killer jumps, and a whole lot of speed and attack.[/QUOTE]


You can keep your pity.

Miki doesn’t need your pity, nor would she want it.
 
Last edited:

Queens Guy

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 11, 2009
Umm, I wouldn't say that. Actually, Yuna has it in the bag unless she messes up, and she has to mess up big as well. (Which is not impossible, as the past two events showed.) What this does is it puts Ando in the prime "dark horse" position- of course, she has to be clean as well or she'll be out of it.

I agree. Some people would say I'm biased for Yuna, but I'm trying to assess the situation objectively. Yuna has only proven that Philip Hersh was right. He wrote that Yuna would not be beaten, although her performance is below the expectation. We know that Yuna had enormous burden to top her own world record at SA, which contributed to her meltdown in her FS. This happened the day after she made another world record in her SP. Meltdown is not the same with a mistake. She doesn't have such burden now. At this GPF, a big, unusual fall a few seconds before her SP affected her during the program. A news article called it a spectacular fall. (Don't tell me she was making an excuse. After SP, Japanese reporters asked her why she missed her flip, and she said that answering the question. They even asked her how the fall affected her.) On the second day, we know that she skated with a broken blade. The blade on her left boot was damaged on Saturday, so she had to skate carefully. You can see previous posts on it in this thread. We also know that there was a controversial judgment on her combination jump in her SP. Don't say that I'm defending her. Those are facts.

Ando got her season's best here in Japan. Rochette got her own in Canada. Asada Mao got her best record in Japan earlier this ear, and she has gotten her high scores mostly in Japan. Like many other sports, home advantage exists in figure skating despite nationalities of judges and techs. Rochette didn't skate well in this GPF because she must have had jet lag and, as observed, had some bad condition. Ando didn't do well earlier in previous Grand Prix events, although she got two gold medals. Yuna is very consistent regardless of all kinds of troubles and even her past injuries. She is heathier and mentally stronger. She won all five events she entered this year. The Olympics will take place in Canada where she is training with Brian Orser. She will not go anywhere until after the Olympics training hard. Figure skating is treacherous, but I think it's highly unlikely that she will mess it up in the Olympics.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Yuna is very consistent regardless of all kinds of troubles and even her past injuries. She is heathier and mentally stronger. She won all five events she entered this year. The Olympics will take place in Canada where she is training with Brian Orser. She will not go anywhere until after the Olympics training hard. Figure skating is treacherous, but I think it's highly unlikely that she will mess it up in the Olympics.

ITA. Yuna is a tough cookie, she's not one to have a complete meltdown. A couple falls sometimes, but still manages to present and keep her cool throughout her programs. The gold is hers to lose.

Miki is definitely an OM contender, but I don't think she'll get gold. As for Mao, I put her about even with Miki right now, maybe a little lower. There's just not much room for improvement with her current program. Even if she lands her triple axels, she still has no 3-3 and she flutzes and her 2loops on the end of combinations often look UR. She's very expressive but her program music doesn't showcase this, her LP music is like background music for her jumps which recently she'd been messing up...

I just watched the junior ladies FS though and the future looks bright for the US, Russia, and Japan. Kanako Murakami does 3-3s and reminds me a lot of Mao at 15, she's that good. Christina Gao who skates for the US trains with Brian Orser in Toronto (I thought Yuna was his only student until now) and is also lovely, nearly the spitting image of 14 year old Yuna. There are 3 strong Russian girls, my favorite is Anna Ovcharova (though she finished 5th) she is only 13 and has so much energy! Polina Shelepen also does 3-3s and skates very fast for such a tiny girl. Her jumps look a little shaky on the landing though, idk how well they'll hold up once she grows. Ksenia Makarova was also very good, she is 16 and much more mature in her looks and presentation, anyone know if she can go to the Olympics? I know she's only a junior but age wise she is eligible. How many spots does Russia get?
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Well, I'm watching the NBC broadcast of GPF now and it's clear that Rochette is losing momentum quickly...Wagner stayed on her feet but she still has work to do if she wants to be competitive at the top level. Yuna just redeemed herself with that FS. Ando still to skate.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
I watched the GPF, and I did so love seeing Orser after YuNa's skate. I just glow every time I see him with YuNa. He has made such good decisions on her behalf, and his calm demeanor must be so comforting at tough moments. He doesn't have to be a drill sergeant with her--she obviously works herself half to death without being ordered to. He and YuNa have done each other proud, and it couldn't happen to two nicer people.

As far as skating goes, Ashley looked really wonderful in her program: she actually skates to the music! which is not as common as you'd think. The Polovetsian Dances is a great program for her.

Suzuki--what a charming firecracker she is. I hope she'll be on the Olympic team, because it will be so great to see her again. She gives that spunky little grin, and I immediately feel happy and hopeful about skating in general and many of life's other difficulties, too.
 

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Polina Shelepen also does 3-3s and skates very fast for such a tiny girl. Her jumps look a little shaky on the landing though, idk how well they'll hold up once she grows

I don't think Polina's jumps are normally that shaky landing wise although her 3/3 didn't have great run out. It seemed to me that she was just really nervous in the long and it affected her landings. The fact that that her nerves just led to shaky landings and not her falling (is telling!) I will say though that I notice that she's reliant on fast rotation and not really a lot of spring to land her jumps it seems. Although her jumps have some height. That may be worrisome. Russia has if you noticed some other talented juniors who will be doing the JGP next year... The future is very bright for Russia in Sochi...

Ando got her season's best here in Japan. Rochette got her own in Canada. Asada Mao got her best record in Japan earlier this ear, and she has gotten her high scores mostly in Japan. Like many other sports, home advantage exists in figure skating despite nationalities of judges and techs. Rochette didn't skate well in this GPF because she must have had jet lag and, as observed, had some bad condition. Ando didn't do well earlier in previous Grand Prix events, although she got two gold medals. Yuna is very consistent regardless of all kinds of troubles and even her past injuries. She is heathier and mentally stronger. She won all five events she entered this year. The Olympics will take place in Canada where she is training with Brian Orser. She will not go anywhere until after the Olympics training hard. Figure skating is treacherous, but I think it's highly unlikely that she will mess it up in the Olympics.

I don't think hometown cooking was the issue with Ando's scores at all. While Miki's skate at NHK was not great at all, I actually thought her long program in Russia was a decent controlled effort with I believe five clean triple jumps (nothing to snuff at ALL). And as for her vs Rochette, the difference between the two of them is that Ando is not doing things like double lutzs in her programs. I mean its one thing to double the back end of a 3/3 or a double axel/3toe. But its a different thing to be doubling all kinds of single triples. I'd rather see the skater fall because at the very least they are going for things.

I'd also point out that Ando is a late season skater. And so I think she's actually looking fairly strong for her. I also think think that Miki is gaining some momentum. She's been putting out accept for NHK, solid, controlled performances and is quitely sending a message to the judges that she's the one most likely to challenge Kim. This isn't going to be lost on the judges because the last thing they are going to want to see is Kim win the Olympics with a poor performance. So I bet a lot of money that a clean short program from Ando will score very well at the Olympics. (Even higher than what she got at :Worlds where she didn't have that kind of momentum)
 

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Miki thinks that she was able to perform 48% of her potential from the practice. 48%.... Very detailed assessment:p.

48%. not 50. I really wish she would have gone for the 3/3 and I think she does too. That said, it was a good skate overall and she has had a very consistant season.
 

sjwh08

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
I've just watched ladies long on NBC.

I can't say enough about how beautifully Yuna's LP was executed. Two hiccups didn't feel like a "mess-up" at all. Such a beautiful program. :love::love::love:

Ash did great too! :clap::clap::clap: It seems more and more like that she'd make it to the Oly team.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Ash did great too! :clap::clap::clap: It seems more and more like that she'd make it to the Oly team.

but how heartbreaking it would be for her to build all this momentum just to have it come crashing down at Nats...(IOW, the most important comp is yet to come, and those spots are still fully up for grabs, or so I'd like to think)
 

CARA

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Country
United-States
48%. not 50. I really wish she would have gone for the 3/3 and I think she does too. That said, it was a good skate overall and she has had a very consistant season.

My guess is it was a strategic decision. Her being the last to skate, she was in the position to be able to assess what it was that she needed to do to be on the podium. Her objective was to be the highest medalled person among Japanese skaters, so she could qualify for the olys.

I don't think we can underestimate how important for her to be able to qualify here, rather than at the National's. The Japan has large and deep pool of talents, and even though Miki has been among the top skaters, anything could happen at the Nationals. Why risk it?

Also Miki trains in the States, meaning she would have to make another long flight to Japan in a couple of weeks (Japan National is from 26th to 28th of December. My folks still live in Japan, so I travel frequently between the States and Japan. It means you would have to spend more than 20 hours of flight/travel hours with anywhere between 11 hours to 14 hours time difference. Believe me, it does take toll on you even though you are as young and fit as Miki, especially if you also take into account the added stress and risking exposure to seasonal germs.

I agree it was a cautious skating, and I would have liked to have seen more aggressive skating she was capable. Still, the prospect of her performance at the Olys warms my heart.

Go Miki!
 

artsciboy

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Anybody know why Joannie has dropped the 2A-2A sequence? She's done that for the last few years, now she only does 2A or 2A-2T. I would think she could rack up some extra points with an extra 2A.

I think Joannie technically has a 2A-2A sequence still planned - but at both SC and the GPF, after making all of those mistakes - its like she just gave up. She probably didn't want to risk making another mistake on the sequence, which is still pretty touch to do.
 
Last edited:

rossdale

Match Penalty
Joined
Dec 4, 2009
Anybody know why Joannie has dropped the 2A-2A sequence? She's done that for the last few years, now she only does 2A or 2A-2T. I would think she could rack up some extra points with an extra 2A.

It doesn't look good for her. I'm hoping she has an Elizabeth Manley moment, by lowering expectations with a series of bad performances and then saving the best for the Olympics. But it looks like the pressure is getting to her.

I think Miki Ando is looking like a good bet for gold. If she gets the 3L-3L and Yuna continues to make mistakes, she's got it in the bag I think.

Yuna and Joannie are strong favorites for Olympic gold. The home advantage for Joannie and Yuna for her excellence in both techincal and artistic elements
 

inside edge

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
I've just watched ladies long on NBC too.

Yuna's PCS 61.52
Miki's PCS 61.12

wow:unsure:

Anyway, I am happy for all the medal recipients!
Ashley, Joannie and Alena!
I want to give a big hug :love:
 
Last edited:

mhu714

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
What do people think is the reason so many US ladies can't seem to do a lutz with a correct takeoff? It's killing Nagasu and Zhang (though other things are killing Caroline too), and obviously hurting Wagner as well. I really like Ashley's effervescence and style but she'll never get anywhere on the international stage like this.

On a general note, though I think the worries about Kim's mental state can't be easily dismissed, I still think she'll win the gold with relative ease. Her only real comp is Mao, and she was so fouled up earlier this season it's hard to believe she'll be at her best in Vancouver. OTOH, though I believe all the other contenders are really pretenders, eg; Ando, Rochette, anyone from Europe, etc, when you see the ridiculous marks given to the above ladies at various GP events, I suppose anything can still happen.
 

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Also Miki trains in the States, meaning she would have to make another long flight to Japan in a couple of weeks (Japan National is from 26th to 28th of December.

meaning you think she will withdraw from Japanese Nationals to save herself the trip? Why not just train in Japan for 3 more weeks?
 

inside edge

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
viv, I love skating!

The media is watching her with a microscope and ask her all kinds of questions. She has been simply answering those questions. Should she not answer them?

I totally agree.
no more misunderstand!
The crazy media ask her all kinds of little things.
 
Last edited:

skatingbc

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
What do people think is the reason so many US ladies can't seem to do a lutz with a correct takeoff? It's killing Nagasu and Zhang (though other things are killing Caroline too), and obviously hurting Wagner as well. I really like Ashley's effervescence and style but she'll never get anywhere on the international stage like this.

I think one reason could be that they weren't forced to do the proper technique in the first place. Sometimes an athlete can be pushed to quickly before learning and mastering the proper technique. It might not matter as much at a younger level, but it certainly can come back to bite them in the backside if they make it to the big league. An example, my youngest sister is currently competing at the Pre-Juvenile level. She has worked on all doubles with her coach except for the double axel, but mostly only works on A, 2S, 2T, 2L with her coach. She can do all of these jumps most of the time, but being focused on the mastery of these jumps has really helped to cement the technique and improve height, speed and flow into and out of the jump. Another girl who competes at a similar level in Starskate (she aged out of Pre-Juve) is working on all doubles INCLUDING the axel. She can do the same jumps as my sister (never landed a 2F, 2Lz, but can do all other doubles), and has about the same consistency level with them. However, her jumps are smaller, and have less speed going into and out of them. Should this be worked on? Or is pushing her to do the 2F, 2L, and 2A when her other doubles aren't great the right thing to do? I just think an emphasis on technique from the very beginning can't be a bad thing.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
On a general note, though I think the worries about Kim's mental state can't be easily dismissed, I still think she'll win the gold with relative ease. Her only real comp is Mao, and she was so fouled up earlier this season it's hard to believe she'll be at her best in Vancouver. OTOH, though I believe all the other contenders are really pretenders, eg; Ando, Rochette, anyone from Europe, etc, when you see the ridiculous marks given to the above ladies at various GP events, I suppose anything can still happen.

Mao without the 3a that she often botches is not really anything special; technically, she becomes average (no 3-3, UR combinations), presentation wise she is still strong but so are a lot of other ladies, plus her program music hurts her presentation-wise. Ando and Rochette's marks are not rediculous, technically they are very solid, skate quickly, very artistic and present a lot. Joannie's marks at SC were too high, but that's the only competition where she was overscored as far as I can tell. Ando's scores haven't been very high all season until the GPF, where her scores were high, but deserved. She landed 5 clean triples and Kim landed 5 (2 foot on the 2a-3t looked UR, not sure if they DG it), so Kim's score being 4 points higher makes sense because she is better than Miki, but missed two of her triples.

The European ladies are a different story, they do have rediculous scores, probably because they are pretty but who knows. European ladies fall a lot and like to double their jumps....I've just come to accept this
 

mhu714

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Silverlake22 said:
Ando and Rochette's marks are not rediculous, technically they are very solid, skate quickly, very artistic and present a lot. Joannie's marks at SC were too high, but that's the only competition where she was overscored as far as I can tell. Ando's scores haven't been very high all season until the GPF, where her scores were high, but deserved.

I may be recalling incorrectly, but I thought Ando and Rochette have been getting at least mid to high 7's and even 8's for PCS, which is at least a bit ridiculous. Ando in particular is all technical ability and when she struggles her artistic side really drops off. Joannie is a nice skater but 8's? I think not, even on her best day. I do not find either of them very artistic at all, especially compared to skaters who truly are, like Kim or even someone like Czisny, who i think is consistently undermarked for PCS (even when she's flopping she's still gorgeous to watch). Just MHO of course, I'm far from an expert.
 
Top