Grand Prix Final: Ladies LP | Page 15 | Golden Skate

Grand Prix Final: Ladies LP

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I may be recalling incorrectly, but I thought Ando and Rochette have been getting at least mid to high 7's and even 8's for PCS, which is at least a bit ridiculous. Ando in particular is all technical ability and when she struggles her artistic side really drops off. Joannie is a nice skater but 8's? I think not, even on her best day. I do not find either of them very artistic at all, especially compared to skaters who truly are, like Kim or even someone like Czisny, who i think is consistently undermarked for PCS (even when she's flopping she's still gorgeous to watch). Just MHO of course, I'm far from an expert.

You have to remember that performance/execution and interpretation are only 2/5 of the PCS score. The other 3/5 are composed of skating skills, transitions, and choreography.

While Alissa excels in performance/execution and interpretation, her skating is quite slow, her transitions are not anything special, and her choreography is fairly slow/simple compared to some of the other ladies. Miki excels in the skating skills, transitions, and choreography portions of the PCS and Joannie excels in all portions of the PCS. Calling the PCS the presentation score is misleading because it is more than just that.

Also, whoever was saying the thing about American ladies and the lutz....Alissa Czisny has a great lutz. It's her best jump, she rarely falls on it, and it always takes off the right edge. The American commentators always comment about how she does a "true lutz". So maybe there is hope. Alissa should just ditch that triple loop though it's downgraded almost every time she does it. Why not do another lutz? it's worth more points...
 

ae9177

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
I really like Yuna, Akiko and Ashley's performances, especially Akiko's, she's like a fresh breeze on ice, so joyful to watch. I hope Joannie can put herself together by Nationals.
 

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
I may be recalling incorrectly, but I thought Ando and Rochette have been getting at least mid to high 7's and even 8's for PCS, which is at least a bit ridiculous. Ando in particular is all technical ability and when she struggles her artistic side really drops off. Joannie is a nice skater but 8's? I think not, even on her best day. I do not find either of them very artistic at all, especially compared to skaters who truly are, like Kim or even someone like Czisny, who i think is consistently undermarked for PCS (even when she's flopping she's still gorgeous to watch). Just MHO of course, I'm far from an expert.

I have to disagree here a bit. Rochette has wonderful basic skating skills and artistry-when she skates well she deserves high PCS. In the case of Miki-she's not the most musical skater and her posture needs work (although its better) But Miki has also very good basic skating skills/flow accross the ice. AND I'm told she can make everything look big. When she's on she can develop a connection with the crowd. Ando got a standing ovation at Worlds. At this particular competition I think that Ando performance was actually a bit better than Yu-na. Although Yu-na has better choregraphy/transitions.

I would not call Miki Ando a pretender AT ALL. She's capable of actually doing more technically and really stepping it up at the big competitions. Ando went CLEAN at 2004 Worlds and 2007 worlds with some tough technical content. At last years worlds she was I believe one rotated 3loop from coming VERY close to winning the long program. She's a former world champion AND the reigning world bronze medalist. If she skates lights out and Yu-na Kim does not, the judges will have no qualms about giving Miki Ando the Olympic Gold medal.

And I think too going into Worlds last year Ando was seen as a bit of a haz been and I think it affected her scores in the short. That's not going to be the case this year because she has been silently showing the judges some consistency and that she's the only skater right now skating well enough to even come close to challenge Kim. The judges are going to make darn sure that Ando is within fighting distance after the short.
 

daniel1406

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
....

Thank goodness that Yuna made her LP almost clean.
Otherwise I would've got really angry. She did 3-3 jump perfectly in her SP. still can't believe her second one got downgraded....
That must put heavy pressure on her T.T
She did 3-2 in her LP T.T
I want to see Yuna doing 3-3. No women single skaters can do 3-3 combo perfectly but Yuna.
If the idiots keep judging her jumps unfairly, we wouldn't see Y's beautiful TL-TT combo anymore. u no.. like we can see Kim's TF-TT combo no more.

I hope there are always fair judges and judgements for bright future of figure skating.(also ice dancing)
 

jovani2293

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 6, 2008
I have to disagree here a bit. Rochette has wonderful basic skating skills and artistry-when she skates well she deserves high PCS. In the case of Miki-she's not the most musical skater and her posture needs work (although its better) But Miki has also very good basic skating skills/flow accross the ice. AND I'm told she can make everything look big. When she's on she can develop a connection with the crowd. Ando got a standing ovation at Worlds. At this particular competition I think that Ando performance was actually a bit better than Yu-na. Although Yu-na has better choregraphy/transitions.

I would not call Miki Ando a pretender AT ALL. She's capable of actually doing more technically and really stepping it up at the big competitions. Ando went CLEAN at 2004 Worlds and 2007 worlds with some tough technical content. At last years worlds she was I believe one rotated 3loop from coming VERY close to winning the long program. She's a former world champion AND the reigning world bronze medalist. If she skates lights out and Yu-na Kim does not, the judges will have no qualms about giving Miki Ando the Olympic Gold medal.

And I think too going into Worlds last year Ando was seen as a bit of a haz been and I think it affected her scores in the short. That's not going to be the case this year because she has been silently showing the judges some consistency and that she's the only skater right now skating well enough to even come close to challenge Kim. The judges are going to make darn sure that Ando is within fighting distance after the short.

I have to agree with you. She could have won the long program and the silver medal had her 3 loop been rotated. She can do the hardest technical programs in the world. If she does and Kim Yu-Na makes mistakes, she can and will win the OGM. But she has to keep up with Kim Yu-Na in the short cause if kim yu-na hit the margin can be to big to bet. She got a 66 in the short at the GPF with just a triple-double and a minor miktake on the layback spin. Kim got a 65 with a triple-triple(dg to a double) and a popped flip. She lose about 4 on the dg and 5 on the flip. Miki can get a 70+ in the short. In the long program, she can easily keep up with Kim Yu-Na and even score higher then Kim. :biggrin:
 

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
I have to agree with you. She could have won the long program and the silver medal had her 3 loop been rotated. She can do the hardest technical programs in the world. If she does and Kim Yu-Na makes mistakes, she can and will win the OGM. But she has to keep up with Kim Yu-Na in the short cause if kim yu-na hit the margin can be to big to bet. She got a 66 in the short at the GPF with just a triple-double and a minor miktake on the layback spin. Kim got a 65 with a triple-triple(dg to a double) and a popped flip. She lose about 4 on the dg and 5 on the flip. Miki can get a 70+ in the short. In the long program, she can easily keep up with Kim Yu-Na and even score higher then Kim. :biggrin:

Well Yu-na did lose credit for a spin too (if we are going to be honest) but the point is that Ando is dangerous if your Kim. I think she's quite capable of closing the gap technically and has less pressure on her. I think the judges sent a clear message at this competition about the fact that they don't regard Kim as unbeatable given how close Ando and Kim's PCS are. To say Ando is some kind of pretender is ridiculous. She's the only skater in the world who has managed to beat both Kim and Asada at the same competition. Don't get me wrong I think that if everyone skated lights out the best, I think that Ando would probably be behind Kim, Asada, Kostner, Rochette. BUT, I think that the judges really respect Ando for her consistency throughout the years and Ando is a better competitor than the other people I've mentioned.
 

DragonPhoenix

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 12, 2007
Artistry

Miki's sp from 2008/09

Actually, I think I like her 2008/09 sp from Skate America even better.

This is the one from World's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shG7r9wSB_8

When Miki is on, she is capable of performing beautiful, unique, fluid, artistic moves.

One of these I especially liked was her graceful hand and fingertips movements from Skate America in 2006.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsFYqDEt-RI

In this video it is from 1:49 to 1:54

I’ve seen professional Balinese Dancing performances live, and some of Miki’s moves in that performance remind me of those.

I was looking for a super clear video but unfortunately this was the best one apparently available right now on YouTube. I’m still looking for a better video.

I find most of this performance quite artistic.

In her 2007 Worlds, I really liked her SP. For her LP she performed clean, but I missed some of her other moves.

I guess I like beautifully performed, unique and exotic artistry.

It seems to me a lot of people are only looking for Ballet. And I love Ballet too, but it is certainly not the only form of art or grace.

Actually I wish Miki would show more of these moves. I think the judging system restricts a lot of skaters from showing all their talent because they have so many jumps and other elements they must perform.
 
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chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
I was a bit taken aback by the poster who criticized Leonova for crying in the KnC after her bad performance. Part of Leonova's appeal is that she is totally transparent as a person, and she expresses exactly how she is feeling. She's at her best when she's feeling exuberant and happy, and that adds a lot to her performance on the ice. But she obviously wasn't feeling her best when skating the FS at the GPF, and she couldn't rise to the occasion. So of course her sadness poured out of her in the KnC!

Leonova has been fairly consistent, and this was the first truly bad performance we've seen from her. So how about cutting the lady a break?

Anyway, if it weren't for Leonova bombing, Rochette would have finished last. And how popular would that have been?
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Anyway, if it weren't for Leonova bombing, Rochette would have finished last. And how popular would that have been?

Leonova's TES was almost 5 points higher than Rochette's, meaning if Rochette wasn't so expressive, she would have been last. Technically, Joannie bombed worse than Leonova did. Also, Akiko has the highest TES! :clap:
 

Trewyn

Medalist
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
I just had another look at the protocols... Ashley's PCS is so low!! By far the lowest of the whole bunch; I don't get that. Her skating skills are definitely better than Leonova, her posture thousand times better than Miki she does a lot of transitions, she's pretty musical and she really tries to interpret the music. I get that she may not be at the level of Rochette and Yu Na, especially as far as skating skills go; and Akiko had a delicious interpretation, so yes I'd have Ashley behind her on PCS as well; but still... Some judges gave her marks around 5.70 for PCS marks! That's low! I was wondering something; would Ashley's PCS marks benifit from using a more well known choreographer like David Wilson (if she could afford him)?
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
I was a bit taken aback by the poster who criticized Leonova for crying in the KnC after her bad performance. Part of Leonova's appeal is that she is totally transparent as a person, and she expresses exactly how she is feeling. She's at her best when she's feeling exuberant and happy, and that adds a lot to her performance on the ice. But she obviously wasn't feeling her best when skating the FS at the GPF, and she couldn't rise to the occasion. So of course her sadness poured out of her in the KnC!

Leonova has been fairly consistent, and this was the first truly bad performance we've seen from her. So how about cutting the lady a break?

Anyway, if it weren't for Leonova bombing, Rochette would have finished last. And how popular would that have been?
:rofl:

ITA about Leonova.

And besides - does skating really need a section of competitions known simply as "Kiss"?
 

CARA

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Country
United-States
meaning you think she will withdraw from Japanese Nationals to save herself the trip? Why not just train in Japan for 3 more weeks?

I have no idea what Miki would have done, only to state my opinions. All I know is that bagging the oly qualification now means that she can concentrate on her training from here to the Olys. That's an advantage she could use over other competitors. Good for Miki.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
:rofl:

ITA about Leonova.

And besides - does skating really need a section of competitions known simply as "Kiss"?

Haha nope. Alena is still a teenager, teenagers are emotional, the crying makes sense. I prefer it to Ashley's shout out to her boyfriend and Caroline's snarky remarks about her scores. Haha the kiss and cry is always so entertaining :laugh:

Also, the judging was iffy, I kinda feel that Joannie could have come in last...Alena landed more triples than she did. It could have gone either way
 

Kwanford Wife

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
I just had another look at the protocols... Ashley's PCS is so low!! By far the lowest of the whole bunch; I don't get that. Her skating skills are definitely better than Leonova, her posture thousand times better than Miki she does a lot of transitions, she's pretty musical and she really tries to interpret the music. I get that she may not be at the level of Rochette and Yu Na, especially as far as skating skills go; and Akiko had a delicious interpretation, so yes I'd have Ashley behind her on PCS as well; but still... Some judges gave her marks around 5.70 for PCS marks! That's low! I was wondering something; would Ashley's PCS marks benifit from using a more well known choreographer like David Wilson (if she could afford him)?

As a newly minted Ashley fan, I did enjoy her skate however, I can see her getting low PCS... she rushes through elements and hasn't developed the "flow" just yet. But she's improving and I totally expect to see her on the olympic team...as for David Wilson - do we really yet another Wilson program? I think not...

:rofl:

ITA about Leonova.

And besides - does skating really need a section of competitions known simply as "Kiss"?

:rofl:

If we switch the name to simply "Kiss" would that give skaters unhappy with their scores the ability to give judges direction on what to kiss?:p;)
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
If we switch the name to simply "Kiss" would that give skaters unhappy with their scores the ability to give judges direction on what to kiss?:p;)
Hmmm, think I'll change my vote. Maybe that's exactly what skating needs. After all, look how much attention Tyra got. :biggrin:
 

Kwanford Wife

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Hmmm, think I'll change my vote. Maybe that's exactly what skating needs. After all, look how much attention Tyra got. :biggrin:

And I'm all about skating getting some much needed attention...we should start a petition! I bet little Miss Caroline whould be the first to sign... :rock::rock:
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
I just had another look at the protocols... Ashley's PCS is so low!! By far the lowest of the whole bunch; I don't get that. Her skating skills are definitely better than Leonova, her posture thousand times better than Miki she does a lot of transitions, she's pretty musical and she really tries to interpret the music. I get that she may not be at the level of Rochette and Yu Na, especially as far as skating skills go; and Akiko had a delicious interpretation, so yes I'd have Ashley behind her on PCS as well; but still... Some judges gave her marks around 5.70 for PCS marks! That's low! I was wondering something; would Ashley's PCS marks benifit from using a more well known choreographer like David Wilson (if she could afford him)?

Ashley finished last in the SP, and that's what hurt her PCS scores: she led off the FS competition. I know, CoP is supposed to prevent that from being the case, but it is. The composition of the judging panel didn't help, either: JPN, ISR, RUS, KOR, CZE, GER, UKR, USA, CAN.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
JPN, ISR, RUS, KOR, CZE, GER, UKR, USA, CAN.

So people from Israel, Korea, Russia, the Czech Republic, Germany, Ukraine and Canada naturally preferred the Japanese skater, Suzuki, to the American one? :scratch:
 
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