Grand Prix Final: Ladies LP

[CARA]

48%. not 50. I really wish she would have gone for the 3/3 and I think she does too. That said, it was a good skate overall and she has had a very consistant season.

My guess is it was a strategic decision. Her being the last to skate, she was in the position to be able to assess what it was that she needed to do to be on the podium. Her objective was to be the highest medalled person among Japanese skaters, so she could qualify for the olys.

I don't think we can underestimate how important for her to be able to qualify here, rather than at the National's. The Japan has large and deep pool of talents, and even though Miki has been among the top skaters, anything could happen at the Nationals. Why risk it?

Also Miki trains in the States, meaning she would have to make another long flight to Japan in a couple of weeks (Japan National is from 26th to 28th of December. My folks still live in Japan, so I travel frequently between the States and Japan. It means you would have to spend more than 20 hours of flight/travel hours with anywhere between 11 hours to 14 hours time difference. Believe me, it does take toll on you even though you are as young and fit as Miki, especially if you also take into account the added stress and risking exposure to seasonal germs.

I agree it was a cautious skating, and I would have liked to have seen more aggressive skating she was capable. Still, the prospect of her performance at the Olys warms my heart.

Go Miki!

[artsciboy]

Anybody know why Joannie has dropped the 2A-2A sequence? She's done that for the last few years, now she only does 2A or 2A-2T. I would think she could rack up some extra points with an extra 2A.

I think Joannie technically has a 2A-2A sequence still planned - but at both SC and the GPF, after making all of those mistakes - its like she just gave up. She probably didn't want to risk making another mistake on the sequence, which is still pretty touch to do.

[rossdale]

Anybody know why Joannie has dropped the 2A-2A sequence? She's done that for the last few years, now she only does 2A or 2A-2T. I would think she could rack up some extra points with an extra 2A.

It doesn't look good for her. I'm hoping she has an Elizabeth Manley moment, by lowering expectations with a series of bad performances and then saving the best for the Olympics. But it looks like the pressure is getting to her.

I think Miki Ando is looking like a good bet for gold. If she gets the 3L-3L and Yuna continues to make mistakes, she's got it in the bag I think.

Yuna and Joannie are strong favorites for Olympic gold. The home advantage for Joannie and Yuna for her excellence in both techincal and artistic elements

[inside edge]

I've just watched ladies long on NBC too.

Yuna's PCS 61.52
Miki's PCS 61.12

wow

Anyway, I am happy for all the medal recipients!
Ashley, Joannie and Alena!
I want to give a big hug

[mhu714]

What do people think is the reason so many US ladies can't seem to do a lutz with a correct takeoff? It's killing Nagasu and Zhang (though other things are killing Caroline too), and obviously hurting Wagner as well. I really like Ashley's effervescence and style but she'll never get anywhere on the international stage like this.

On a general note, though I think the worries about Kim's mental state can't be easily dismissed, I still think she'll win the gold with relative ease. Her only real comp is Mao, and she was so fouled up earlier this season it's hard to believe she'll be at her best in Vancouver. OTOH, though I believe all the other contenders are really pretenders, eg; Ando, Rochette, anyone from Europe, etc, when you see the ridiculous marks given to the above ladies at various GP events, I suppose anything can still happen.

[Tinymavy15]

Also Miki trains in the States, meaning she would have to make another long flight to Japan in a couple of weeks (Japan National is from 26th to 28th of December.

meaning you think she will withdraw from Japanese Nationals to save herself the trip? Why not just train in Japan for 3 more weeks?

[inside edge]

The media is watching her with a microscope and ask her all kinds of questions. She has been simply answering those questions. Should she not answer them?

I totally agree.
no more misunderstand!
The crazy media ask her all kinds of little things.

[skatingbc]

What do people think is the reason so many US ladies can't seem to do a lutz with a correct takeoff? It's killing Nagasu and Zhang (though other things are killing Caroline too), and obviously hurting Wagner as well. I really like Ashley's effervescence and style but she'll never get anywhere on the international stage like this.

I think one reason could be that they weren't forced to do the proper technique in the first place. Sometimes an athlete can be pushed to quickly before learning and mastering the proper technique. It might not matter as much at a younger level, but it certainly can come back to bite them in the backside if they make it to the big league. An example, my youngest sister is currently competing at the Pre-Juvenile level. She has worked on all doubles with her coach except for the double axel, but mostly only works on A, 2S, 2T, 2L with her coach. She can do all of these jumps most of the time, but being focused on the mastery of these jumps has really helped to cement the technique and improve height, speed and flow into and out of the jump. Another girl who competes at a similar level in Starskate (she aged out of Pre-Juve) is working on all doubles INCLUDING the axel. She can do the same jumps as my sister (never landed a 2F, 2Lz, but can do all other doubles), and has about the same consistency level with them. However, her jumps are smaller, and have less speed going into and out of them. Should this be worked on? Or is pushing her to do the 2F, 2L, and 2A when her other doubles aren't great the right thing to do? I just think an emphasis on technique from the very beginning can't be a bad thing.

[silverlake22]

On a general note, though I think the worries about Kim's mental state can't be easily dismissed, I still think she'll win the gold with relative ease. Her only real comp is Mao, and she was so fouled up earlier this season it's hard to believe she'll be at her best in Vancouver. OTOH, though I believe all the other contenders are really pretenders, eg; Ando, Rochette, anyone from Europe, etc, when you see the ridiculous marks given to the above ladies at various GP events, I suppose anything can still happen.

Mao without the 3a that she often botches is not really anything special; technically, she becomes average (no 3-3, UR combinations), presentation wise she is still strong but so are a lot of other ladies, plus her program music hurts her presentation-wise. Ando and Rochette's marks are not rediculous, technically they are very solid, skate quickly, very artistic and present a lot. Joannie's marks at SC were too high, but that's the only competition where she was overscored as far as I can tell. Ando's scores haven't been very high all season until the GPF, where her scores were high, but deserved. She landed 5 clean triples and Kim landed 5 (2 foot on the 2a-3t looked UR, not sure if they DG it), so Kim's score being 4 points higher makes sense because she is better than Miki, but missed two of her triples.

The European ladies are a different story, they do have rediculous scores, probably because they are pretty but who knows. European ladies fall a lot and like to double their jumps....I've just come to accept this

[mhu714]

Silverlake22 said:
Ando and Rochette's marks are not rediculous, technically they are very solid, skate quickly, very artistic and present a lot. Joannie's marks at SC were too high, but that's the only competition where she was overscored as far as I can tell. Ando's scores haven't been very high all season until the GPF, where her scores were high, but deserved.

I may be recalling incorrectly, but I thought Ando and Rochette have been getting at least mid to high 7's and even 8's for PCS, which is at least a bit ridiculous. Ando in particular is all technical ability and when she struggles her artistic side really drops off. Joannie is a nice skater but 8's? I think not, even on her best day. I do not find either of them very artistic at all, especially compared to skaters who truly are, like Kim or even someone like Czisny, who i think is consistently undermarked for PCS (even when she's flopping she's still gorgeous to watch). Just MHO of course, I'm far from an expert.

[silverlake22]

I may be recalling incorrectly, but I thought Ando and Rochette have been getting at least mid to high 7's and even 8's for PCS, which is at least a bit ridiculous. Ando in particular is all technical ability and when she struggles her artistic side really drops off. Joannie is a nice skater but 8's? I think not, even on her best day. I do not find either of them very artistic at all, especially compared to skaters who truly are, like Kim or even someone like Czisny, who i think is consistently undermarked for PCS (even when she's flopping she's still gorgeous to watch). Just MHO of course, I'm far from an expert.

You have to remember that performance/execution and interpretation are only 2/5 of the PCS score. The other 3/5 are composed of skating skills, transitions, and choreography.

While Alissa excels in performance/execution and interpretation, her skating is quite slow, her transitions are not anything special, and her choreography is fairly slow/simple compared to some of the other ladies. Miki excels in the skating skills, transitions, and choreography portions of the PCS and Joannie excels in all portions of the PCS. Calling the PCS the presentation score is misleading because it is more than just that.

Also, whoever was saying the thing about American ladies and the lutz....Alissa Czisny has a great lutz. It's her best jump, she rarely falls on it, and it always takes off the right edge. The American commentators always comment about how she does a "true lutz". So maybe there is hope. Alissa should just ditch that triple loop though it's downgraded almost every time she does it. Why not do another lutz? it's worth more points...

[ae9177]

I really like Yuna, Akiko and Ashley's performances, especially Akiko's, she's like a fresh breeze on ice, so joyful to watch. I hope Joannie can put herself together by Nationals.

[bekalc]

I may be recalling incorrectly, but I thought Ando and Rochette have been getting at least mid to high 7's and even 8's for PCS, which is at least a bit ridiculous. Ando in particular is all technical ability and when she struggles her artistic side really drops off. Joannie is a nice skater but 8's? I think not, even on her best day. I do not find either of them very artistic at all, especially compared to skaters who truly are, like Kim or even someone like Czisny, who i think is consistently undermarked for PCS (even when she's flopping she's still gorgeous to watch). Just MHO of course, I'm far from an expert.

I have to disagree here a bit. Rochette has wonderful basic skating skills and artistry-when she skates well she deserves high PCS. In the case of Miki-she's not the most musical skater and her posture needs work (although its better) But Miki has also very good basic skating skills/flow accross the ice. AND I'm told she can make everything look big. When she's on she can develop a connection with the crowd. Ando got a standing ovation at Worlds. At this particular competition I think that Ando performance was actually a bit better than Yu-na. Although Yu-na has better choregraphy/transitions.

I would not call Miki Ando a pretender AT ALL. She's capable of actually doing more technically and really stepping it up at the big competitions. Ando went CLEAN at 2004 Worlds and 2007 worlds with some tough technical content. At last years worlds she was I believe one rotated 3loop from coming VERY close to winning the long program. She's a former world champion AND the reigning world bronze medalist. If she skates lights out and Yu-na Kim does not, the judges will have no qualms about giving Miki Ando the Olympic Gold medal.

And I think too going into Worlds last year Ando was seen as a bit of a haz been and I think it affected her scores in the short. That's not going to be the case this year because she has been silently showing the judges some consistency and that she's the only skater right now skating well enough to even come close to challenge Kim. The judges are going to make darn sure that Ando is within fighting distance after the short.

[daniel1406]

Thank goodness that Yuna made her LP almost clean.
Otherwise I would've got really angry. She did 3-3 jump perfectly in her SP. still can't believe her second one got downgraded....
That must put heavy pressure on her T.T
She did 3-2 in her LP T.T
I want to see Yuna doing 3-3. No women single skaters can do 3-3 combo perfectly but Yuna.
If the idiots keep judging her jumps unfairly, we wouldn't see Y's beautiful TL-TT combo anymore. u no.. like we can see Kim's TF-TT combo no more.

I hope there are always fair judges and judgements for bright future of figure skating.(also ice dancing)

[jovani2293]

I have to disagree here a bit. Rochette has wonderful basic skating skills and artistry-when she skates well she deserves high PCS. In the case of Miki-she's not the most musical skater and her posture needs work (although its better) But Miki has also very good basic skating skills/flow accross the ice. AND I'm told she can make everything look big. When she's on she can develop a connection with the crowd. Ando got a standing ovation at Worlds. At this particular competition I think that Ando performance was actually a bit better than Yu-na. Although Yu-na has better choregraphy/transitions.

I would not call Miki Ando a pretender AT ALL. She's capable of actually doing more technically and really stepping it up at the big competitions. Ando went CLEAN at 2004 Worlds and 2007 worlds with some tough technical content. At last years worlds she was I believe one rotated 3loop from coming VERY close to winning the long program. She's a former world champion AND the reigning world bronze medalist. If she skates lights out and Yu-na Kim does not, the judges will have no qualms about giving Miki Ando the Olympic Gold medal.

And I think too going into Worlds last year Ando was seen as a bit of a haz been and I think it affected her scores in the short. That's not going to be the case this year because she has been silently showing the judges some consistency and that she's the only skater right now skating well enough to even come close to challenge Kim. The judges are going to make darn sure that Ando is within fighting distance after the short.

I have to agree with you. She could have won the long program and the silver medal had her 3 loop been rotated. She can do the hardest technical programs in the world. If she does and Kim Yu-Na makes mistakes, she can and will win the OGM. But she has to keep up with Kim Yu-Na in the short cause if kim yu-na hit the margin can be to big to bet. She got a 66 in the short at the GPF with just a triple-double and a minor miktake on the layback spin. Kim got a 65 with a triple-triple(dg to a double) and a popped flip. She lose about 4 on the dg and 5 on the flip. Miki can get a 70+ in the short. In the long program, she can easily keep up with Kim Yu-Na and even score higher then Kim.