10 Things I Learned from this Grand Prix Season | Golden Skate

10 Things I Learned from this Grand Prix Season

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Move this to another thread if more appropriate

1. The judges hate the pairs narrative of this quadrennial as much as we do
Whether you believe that it's COP's fault or not, the general consensus as near as I can see is that pairs has been disappointing. So many people have shifted from calling it their favourite event to their least favourite event, and it's not hard to see why. Flashing back to 2008 Worlds on this site, the most intriguing thing was how little everyone thought of everyone. No one deserved to win, it seemed. S/S had that flawed long (but received a huge score). D/D were very pretty and well skated, but weren't as difficult as the top teams. Z/Z didn't have the artistry people hoped to see in world champions. But then Shen/Zhao came back.

There's only one reason for them to come back and that is to get Olympic Gold. Yes, silver would be their best Olympic result ever, but for most of us, that would be crushing. 2002 saw their deserving bronze overshadowed by controversy. 2006 saw their amazing comeback overshadowed by their teammates. If S/Z are overshadowed by members of this field.... well, that would be disappointing.

But more than that, it seems like the field has responded, or at the very least upped their game for this Olympic season. M/T having two clean longs on the GP circuit? P/T improving their UR that often push them away from the podium? S/S responding to the disappointing TEB LP with a newly choreographed beauty at SC? S/Z are looking to cruise their way to a victory, but if the short at the GP is any indication, the other teams look to be fighting for a medal, and that's quite awesome.

2. Mental Attitude is 90% of the Game
It never really occurred to me before, so I guess I just paid it lip service and nothing more. Sure, in extreme cases, I saw it more than that (Verner is the obvious example), but generally I figured that talent will out. But time and time again, we've seen skaters with strong mental attitudes surprise the field (Preaubert's bronze over Contesti/Chan/Ten etc). I've been disappointed with Moir's comments about how they were the best etc, but since they've actually posted the scores to make a case for that, I'm beginning to be okay with it (ditto Plushenko). If that kind of attitude actually helps you, then fine. Lysacek's steadiness is proving an asset (and how many of us assumed it was really unlikely that he repeat as a medalist, let alone champion).

And the flipside, we're seeing people crack (Rochette, Kostner), strain (Asada) and waver (Kim). The Olympics are clearly coming as the pressure seems to be attacking skaters across the board.

3. ISU Wants HIGH Scores
On the one hand, I like that scoring in the 9.00's isn't a mere pipe dream. On the other hand, juking the stats like that doesn't help the SPORT, which is what ISU should be concentrating on. Will it help excitement? Maybe. And yes, that's a good thing (the best thing for the ISU/COP right now is a well skated Olympics, I think).

4. The USFSA has a tough decision
Before this GP season, I thought, okay Flatt and Cohen will be on the team. Flatt because she's relatively consistent and will likely do the best out of all the skaters, Cohen because her record and reputation gives the sport a bit of glamour in the USA, and yeah, I do want the sport to be more popular there without having to sacrifice much about what makes it so exciting to watch now. But then Wagner went and medalled at CoR, Flatt missed out on a medal and Cohen withdrew from both her events (I wish she had skated at SA at least. Hometown crowd, weaker field - if Emily Hughes got the response she did, can you imagine what it would've been like for reigning Olympic silver medalist Cohen?). And just maybe, just maybe, people would start realizing that US Figure Skating is more than just ladies. Two/three gold medal contenders could be sidelined this season (in terms of media response) if people's interest in the sport of figure skating isn't improved.

But it's more than that. I think the international judges have signaled who they want as the number ones, and it's not Belbin/Agosto in ice dance. But the USFSA has always marched to it's own tune. I don't think it does B/A any credit to miss Nationals (as someone supposed) and keep their (hopefully improved levels/GOE) program away from judges until the Olympics, and I can see them still winning Nationals. But then what happens? B/A are not the best free dance skaters. D/W excel there. And do we think that ice dance politicking is as necessary now as in the past?

5. O Canada?
So, Canada has gone from having four potential medalists (D/D were a huge darkhorse at best, admittedly) to having several hugely disappointing performances. Chan's injured, D/D had the underwhelming SC LP (though they seem to be enjoying skating more this year than last), and Rochette... well, I thought the Japan Open would be a harbinger of things to come. 7 clean triples, four in the back half of her program, two of them in sequence with another sequence. A complicated program that was well skated but had room for improvement. I thought she'd be trying for gold, frankly (whereas in 08/09, I think she was aiming for a medal). Only Virtue/Moir are on target for Vancouver. Now, the Grand Prix season only means so much. None of the gold medalists at the GPF last year medalled at Worlds. Less than half of the medalists medalled at Worlds (Kim, S/S, Z/Z, DomShabs). And the ice dancing field was the easiest, with the withdrawals of two world champions (and the reigning silver medalists from the finals), so it's not gonna be as simple as it was here. Some people peak later than others (it's worth mentioning that Joannie's placements here, 4 and 6, are a virtual mirror of her results last year - 6 and 3).

6. Scandal lurks
Thinking about it, COP got a huge gift in Torino. Three of the four winners were predictable and all four were deserving. The questionable calls didn't raise a scandal because they happened to the "right' people (Z/Z avoiding deductions would've changed the podium, but not at the expense of another country) or they didn't change anything really (Plushenko's transition grades). But for many, this GP season doesn't instill confidence. It doesn't help that largely, this GP season has been disappointing for so many skaters. I can't deny being nervous. Anonymous judging promotes the appearance of scandal (which I think would be enough).

7. Comparing Scores is Difficult
As Mathman stated elsewhere, it's easy to gauge precision. But accuracy is a whole 'nother beast. The contradiction therein seems to make skating fans nervous. We were promised objectivity when none is possible (thanks Speedy) and given a system that needs a far greater degree of objectivity. But it's impossible, so of course we get antsy. On the other hand, the ISU DOES treat scores objectively. They use them as tiebreakers in the GP standings, for example. They record them on the website as "highest scores" etc. Personal/Season's bests are recorded and promoted. So how can you blame fan(atics?) from comparing scores between events? How can you not want to (well, except for the fact that it'll lead to confusion, misery and possible heartbreak).

8. Injuries Suck
Okay, so I already knew that, but it still sucks. Chan went from likely gold medal contender to a question for the final flight. We lost two chances to see Faiella/Scalia's glorious FD improve this season (at least we have Europeans). Who knows about the state of Megan Duhamel's leg? And even this hater felt a twinge of sadness hearing that Joubert needed surgery.

9. No One knows anything
The memes we heard this year? Queen Yu-Na was invulnerable (Ando and Flatt have something to say about that... sorry for the rhyme); S/S vs S/Z all the way (not if P/T or even M/T have anything to do with it); this will be Plushenko's for the taking (not if Oda nails everything like he did in TEB); the comeback kids would reign supreme (Lambiel's still a question mark, as is Cohen). Weir was out of it as the UFSFA doesn't like him (he's certainly not making it easy for them to kick him to the curb).

10. The pre- and post- emptive strikes will come fast and thick

If <insert figure skater(s)> <insert outcome> it'll be because <insert conspiracy theory related dismissal> and not <insert reason only naive children believe>

Some examples

If Caroline Zhang misses out on the Olympic team it'll be because the whole figure skating community is racist and not because her poor technique makes her open to huge drops in GOE, which leads to poor results which leads to less than enthusiastic Zhang which is in turn reflected in her performances.

If Joannie Rochette medals in Vancouver it'll be because she's a hometown contender with the judges in her back pocket and not because she's a skilled skater who works the COP like nobody else

If Domnina and Shabalin medals in Vancouver it'll be because the evil Russian Federation will not be denied and not because they could actually deserve it.

Anyone want to help compile them all :)
 
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R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I agree with 4, 6, and 9.

I'd like to comment on 4 though:

Before this GP season, I thought, okay Flatt and Cohen will be on the team. Flatt because she's relatively consistent and will likely do the best out of all the skaters, Cohen because her record and reputation gives the sport a bit of glamour in the USA, and yeah, I do want the sport to be more popular there without having to sacrifice much about what makes it so exciting to watch now. But then Wagner went and medalled at CoR, Flatt missed out on a medal and Cohen withdrew from both her events (I wish she had skated at SA at least. Hometown crowd, weaker field - if Emily Hughes got the response she did, can you imagine what it would've been like for reigning Olympic silver medalist Cohen?).

I think China was an aberration for Flatt, and she did much better at SA. She handles pressure best of the American ladies and I think she's the best candidate for an Oly spot. In fact, I'd consider Flatt NOT getting an Oly spot a shocker. The one thing I'd be concerned about if I was a Flatt fan is the potential party-crashing that would be Cohen's return. Flatt was solid in both 2008 and 2009 and ended up finishing 2nd to more talented skaters who really had SOHLs (particularly in the SP). If that happens again AND Cohen comes back strong, I can see a situation where Flatt might be 3rd and potentially left off the team.

But we can revisit this topic in mid-January after Cohen announces her WD from Nats as well as her retirement ;)
 

CARA

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Country
United-States
2. Mental Attitude is 90% of the Game

It never really occurred to me before, so I guess I just paid it lip service and nothing more. Sure, in extreme cases, I saw it more than that (Verner is the obvious example), but generally I figured that talent will out. But time and time again, we've seen skaters with strong mental attitudes surprise the field (Preaubert's bronze over Contesti/Chan/Ten etc). I've been disappointed with Moir's comments about how they were the best etc, but since they've actually posted the scores to make a case for that, I'm beginning to be okay with it (ditto Plushenko). If that kind of attitude actually helps you, then fine. Lysacek's steadiness is proving an asset (and how many of us assumed it was really unlikely that he repeat as a medalist, let alone champion).

And the flipside, we're seeing people crack (Rochette, Kostner), strain (Asada) and waver (Kim). The Olympics are clearly coming as the pressure seems to be attacking skaters across the board.

First of all, a great post! :clap:
I would like to put my two senses and hopefully elaborate on #2 though. 90% of the game is mental attitude is about right. It means to reverse general expectations upside-down: skating clean program is not a norm but an exception. The more pressure filled the situation, the more this is the case. The olys being the most pressure cooked situation, that's why we may see more splat-fests.

And I have reasons to believe that the clean programs becoming rarer:

1. The CoP demands higher technical accuracies/proficiencies than in the past, which puts more pressure on each skater;

2. Living in the 24hrs news cycle means you tend to be more exposed, meaning both your accomplishments and failures could be magnified. Hence, more pressure;
3. An Olympic medal can make commercial success with millions of dollars at stake - more pressure;

4. Additionally, technical difficulties are constantly upgraded if you want to be a medal contender. Remember, Dick Button was a multiple-gold-medalist with double jumps; he won an OGM in 1952 with the first ever triple loop jump. More than half a century later, a junior female skater can't even win her "regional" with a multiple double jumps and a triple loop!
It is exciting to see all those technically difficult jumps for us fans; however, higher difficulty content means more pressure to athletes as well as the increased potential for "splat-fest."

5. Finally, there is a subtle consequence of upping technical difficulties. Just like gymnastics, all those jumps come easier to youngsters, which tend to push skaters to peak earlier in age, as well as to shorten the athlete's career life-span. It has become simply too physically strenuous for longevity. Flipping side of this state of skating affair means mental immaturity due to young age and luck of experiences. Hence, more chances of less than clean programs.

6. I think if we accept the notion that a clean program is an exception rather than a norm, we might be less critical/stressed out about this sport. I'll be the first one to admit that this notion goes against my emotional expectations for watching figure skating events.

But isn't this precisely the reason why great champions are so rare - ones with technical and artistic mastery, and be able to deliver great programs at pressure cooked situations? And we cherish great champions because implicitly and explicitly we know how rare the combination of skills and mental toughness are.
 
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YN fan

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 4, 2009
Move this to another thread if more appropriate


10. The pre- and post- emptive strikes will come fast and thick

If <insert figure skater(s)> <insert outcome> it'll be because <insert conspiracy theory related dismissal> and not <insert reason only naive children believe>

Some examples

If Caroline Zhang misses out on the Olympic team it'll be because the whole figure skating community is racist and not because her poor technique makes her open to huge drops in GOE, which leads to poor results which leads to less than enthusiastic Zhang which is in turn reflected in her performances.

If Joannie Rochette medals in Vancouver it'll be because she's a hometown contender with the judges in her back pocket and not because she's a skilled skater who works the COP like nobody else

If Domnina and Shabalin medals in Vancouver it'll be because the evil Russian Federation will not be denied and not because they could actually deserve it.

Anyone want to help compile them all :)

hahahaha, I guess this part is almost inevitable. Some obsessed fans think that they are doing figure skating world a favour by bringing justice to their favorite skater if he/she doesn't win. However, what they are really doing is driving casual fans away from watching figure skating. The reason why figure skating is not that popular around the world is partly due to lack of media coverage, previous scandals, etc,etc, but it also has to do with some fans saying stuff like that. I really hope they don't after the olympic.
 

CARA

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Country
United-States
But we can revisit this topic in mid-January after Cohen announces her WD from Nats as well as her retirement

I tend to agree for the mental toughness reason.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Thanks for your excellent analysis and such interesting and entertaining thoughts ImaginaryPogue.

I could not have said it better and would have needed three times as many words to say half as much :yes:

Of course I appreciate you saving the best thought for last ;) :laugh:
 

DarkestMoon

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
10. The pre- and post- emptive strikes will come fast and thick

If <insert figure skater(s)> <insert outcome> it'll be because <insert conspiracy theory related dismissal> and not <insert reason only naive children believe>

Some examples

If Caroline Zhang misses out on the Olympic team it'll be because the whole figure skating community is racist and not because her poor technique makes her open to huge drops in GOE, which leads to poor results which leads to less than enthusiastic Zhang which is in turn reflected in her performances.

If Joannie Rochette medals in Vancouver it'll be because she's a hometown contender with the judges in her back pocket and not because she's a skilled skater who works the COP like nobody else

If Domnina and Shabalin medals in Vancouver it'll be because the evil Russian Federation will not be denied and not because they could actually deserve it.

Anyone want to help compile them all :)

:rofl: :laugh: :clap: Thank you! (and some of them are becoming memes) It's becoming ridiculous with these if a, then b statements.

You might want to add: If X European lady makes podium, it's because of her looks, not because some of them actually have decent skating skills.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Quote from CARA: Finally, there is a subtle consequence of upping technical difficulties. Just like gymnastics, all those jumps come easier to youngsters, which tend to push skaters to peak earlier in age, as well as to shorten the athlete's career life-span. It has become simply too physically strenuous for longevity. Flipping side of this state of skating affair means mental immaturity due to young age and luck of experiences. Hence, more chances of less than clean programs.

This is one that bothers me hugely, and has for years (even before CoP). One reason is that it tends to affect ladies skating more than men's. We've examined the issue from various angles in different threads and have never really figured out a solution--not that we'd have a say in the matter. I guess we'll just have to continue watching with our hearts in our mouths, or devote ourselves to curling.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Finnish Ladies: Finnish Beauty Bonus.
Italian Lady: Speedy Brownnosing Bonus.
Russian Lady: Russian Politiking Bonus.
How astute! :clap:

Of course, looking at disciplines in which skaters from other European countries are competitive:
If they're French, it's that corrupt Didier Gailhaguet buying judges.
If they're German, the judges were probably afraid of Ingo Steuer.
And if it's Stephane Lambiel, it's quite likely that nobody will complain :p.

ImaginaryPogue, great post :rock:. I didn't agree with all of it, but interesting observations and you brought up some really good points.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Yes, how could I forget the Finn Beauty bonus. My mistake. This is why I needed help to compile them

Thanks for the kind words everyone.

ImaginaryPogue, great post :rock:. I didn't agree with all of it, but interesting observations and you brought up some really good points.

Out of curiousity (and I desire to debate someone), which points did you disagree with?
 

CARA

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Country
United-States
Quote from CARA: Finally, there is a subtle consequence of upping technical difficulties. Just like gymnastics, all those jumps come easier to youngsters, which tend to push skaters to peak earlier in age, as well as to shorten the athlete's career life-span. It has become simply too physically strenuous for longevity. Flipping side of this state of skating affair means mental immaturity due to young age and luck of experiences. Hence, more chances of less than clean programs.

This is one that bothers me hugely, and has for years (even before CoP). One reason is that it tends to affect ladies skating more than men's. We've examined the issue from various angles in different threads and have never really figured out a solution--not that we'd have a say in the matter. I guess we'll just have to continue watching with our hearts in our mouths, or devote ourselves to curling.

This is such a complex issue that I am almost tempted to start a new thread. I'll see if there are interest among posters. Note I'm not a skater, so the following is my educated guess and logical deductions. Perhaps skaters can correct/add what I write here. Anyway here goes:

Among the technical difficulties, the key element is the jumping ability. It is easier to defy gravity when you are small in statue and have better spring (limber body), both of which are the hallmark of youngsters. As female skaters hit puberty, the center of gravity is lowered due to the enbroadened hip area. Also the fat/muscle ratio changes (increase in fat). Among others, those two factors make it harder for female skaters to continue defying gravity, i.e., jumping.

This is why many late teen and adult female skaters watch out their diet like a hawk and stay slim and muscular - the nature of the sport gives advantage to such physical types. That such an already excellent jumper like Miki felt need to lose significant weight during the summer is a good example. I also wonder whether she also lost weight to attempt quad, again - something she did when she was younger but not recently though I heard the rumor.

I do not know the point at which the technical difficulty becomes unrealistic for female skaters. Also any human endeavor has corrective mechanisms. When the technical difficulty reaches a critical mass, e.g., too many splat-fests resulting from skaters attempting arduous jumps, the skating federation will enact new rules. These "improvement/changes" are incremental and continuous.

One other factor to be taken into account is the human potentials. We truly do not know the limit as to what human body is capable of. I remember the days when it was considered impossible to break 10 seconds among 100 meter sprinters. We have way passed 10 seconds and still counting.

Same thing goes with the progression of jumps in skating from a single jump to a quad. Are we on the verge of seeing "penta-jump?" I don't know. But I would not count is as an impossibility.

Pushing boundaries like that goes hand in hand with new knowledge and new understandings. For instance, tennis was predominantly played on glass and clay surfaces initially. As the hard court becomes popular, players discovered how "hard" a hard court was to their knees. Manufacturers in turn have continue improving better shoes to absorb constant pounding, thereby help extending player's longevity. I suspect the similar improvement is occurring with skating gears (help me out here.)

Anyway, those are some of my thoughts. Feel free to add your wisdom here.
 
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evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
10. The pre- and post- emptive strikes will come fast and thick

If <insert figure skater(s)> <insert outcome> it'll be because <insert conspiracy theory related dismissal> and not <insert reason only naive children believe>

Some examples

If Caroline Zhang misses out on the Olympic team it'll be because the whole figure skating community is racist and not because her poor technique makes her open to huge drops in GOE, which leads to poor results which leads to less than enthusiastic Zhang which is in turn reflected in her performances.

If Joannie Rochette medals in Vancouver it'll be because she's a hometown contender with the judges in her back pocket and not because she's a skilled skater who works the COP like nobody else

If Domnina and Shabalin medals in Vancouver it'll be because the evil Russian Federation will not be denied and not because they could actually deserve it.

Anyone want to help compile them all :)


This is actually really fun!

If Brian Joubert wins in Vancouver it'll be because the judges are all fangirls who are too distracted by his hip thrusting and not because he can be a charismatic performer with decent jumps and a quad.

If the Olympics are a splatfest it'll be becauseCoP is the root of all evil and is ruining figure skating and not because high-pressure events like the Olympics are almost always a splatfest.

If Yu-Na Kim wins in Vancouver it'll be because the Korean Skating Federation bribed the tech caller and not because she is an excellent skater and currently the class of the field right now.

If Mao Asada wins in Vancouver it'll be because the JSF and Japanese sponsors threatened the ISU and not because she is a talented skater despite some dodgy costuming and choreography.

If my favourite skater doesn't win in Vancouver it'll be because the judges are all lying/cheating/horrible people who are biased or blind and not because my favourite skater may not have performed well or other skaters performed better.
 
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R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
If my favourite skater doesn't win in Vancouver it'll be because the judges are all lying/cheating/horrible people who are biased or blind and not because my favourite skater may not have performed well or other skaters performed better.

Probably the one most likely to happen. :laugh:
 

schiele

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
whole post

I agree with most of your analysis on women's demons (I am not a skater myself apart from some here and there).. However, we also had skaters with considerable body build and the exact opposite type you just described, who were unbelievable jumpers: Irina Slutskaya, Midori Ito, Tonya Harding... So Im thinking there should be more to it.. :confused:
As to the penta jump, I do not think we are remotely anywhere near seeing anything like that, given the quad itself is steadily disapperaring.. :banging:
 

fairly4

Medalist
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
the only thing i learned is this--if the skater makes a mistake--
the skater pcs scores are supposed to go down a level--for example from a level 4 to a level 3, level 3 to a level 2.

guess what--they don't follow their own rules only for the skaters they don't want up there - skate america --rachel inshort still got full levels even with the fall,
zhang what hardly any levels.
yes-the judges, callers pick and choose who gets what level--not accordingto the rules or is it only in ice dance that they go down a level with mistakes.
 
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