Is Mao back in the mix?

[seniorita]

I would never write off mao because of her bad starting, and she is the most natural talented of the ladies in my opinion. When she doesnt apply this talent into her programs it is frustrating.
I dont know why her coach doesnt have a plan B or C in case she messes her axels. It looked that way in Russia.
This thing article that Tarasova is only her consultant upseted me very much...so who is her coach?

[bekalc]

(Mishin and Yagudin were also not a good pairing despite the brilliance of both).

Yagudin owes a LOT of his success to Alexei Mishin. Yagudin came to Tarasova with brilliant jumps/good skating skills and that was due to the teaching of Alexei Mishin. Even when he was with Tarasova he never stopped doing the exercises and drills that Mishin taught him. (Even his first coach was Mishin's former student).

Yes Tarasova helped him improve artistically. But without the technical foundation that was laid down by Mishin, Yagudin would have never been the champion he was.

Mishin has a brilliant ability to teach young children how to jump, while giving them also good basic skating technique. He's not the greatest packager, but as a technical coach I don't think Mishin is really second to anyone. I mean just look at how young Elizaveta is developing. Excellent skating skills, excellent edges, and GREAT jumping technique. That's Mishin's work.

He taught Alexei for years. Yes their partnership stopped working but for a long period of time it was quite successful.

[silverlake22]

I do recall commenting skepticism at people who were claiming Yuna was unbeatable after TEB. About the only person who has a decent chance of beating Yuna when she is at least on par is Mao. Unless Ando can hit her 3F-3Lo cleanly or land a good quad. If Yuna has a major meltdown, the barn door opens to a lot of skaters.

I would switch Mao and Miki. If Miki is on par and does a 3lz-3lo she has a shot at beating a conservative Yuna. Unless Mao does all three of her 3axels. If even one is UR or popped, she's out. The reason why? The rest of her jumps in the LP.
3f-2lo
3lo (often UR- or at least was at TEB)
3f-2lo-2lo (both loops often UR)
3t
2a
Mao does not attempt even one lutz, and her 3 jump combination is weak due to the high probability of one or both of her double loops being downgraded. Plus Yuna's 3lz-3t is worth more than Mao's 3a-2t (10 vs 9.5 points) and Yuna's chances of hitting that combination are much higher than Mao's are.

The other thing. Mao had a pretty good showing at TEB, and her score was 173.99. Rachael Flatt's score at SA, with the fall in the short and her last spin not counted (comparable mistakes to Mao's at TEB), was 174. 91. Just goes to show that the 3a really isn't THAT valuable, given it's huge risk factor. A 3lz-2t in the 2nd half of the program is pretty much the same in value as a 3a in the 1st half (8.03 vs 8.2 points). Rachael's 3f-2t-2lo at the end of the program is worth 9.13 points which is essentially the same as 9.5 that Mao's 3a-2t at the beginning of the program is worth. Her 3f-3t at the beginning is woth exactly the same, 9.5.

Rachael, Yuna, and Miki have mastered how to get the most points they can without taking huge risks. Mao has not. It's a lot easier to land a 3lz-2t than a 3a, or a 3f-2t-2lo, 3f-3t (for Rachael) or 3lz-3t (for Yunas) than a 3a-2t for Mao. If Rachael or Yuna were to double the second jump or UR it, it wouldn't completely kill the whole jump sequence. For Mao, there is a much bigger risk of this

[sorcerer]

When is this exciting Japanese Nationals?

Dec.25th to 27th, JST.

The criteria of JSF in sending skaters to Olympics and Worlds:

1. the skater reaching the highest among the Japanese on the GPF podium (not off the podium) of each discipline, this under the condition that the skater competes in the Nationals.
<Miki and Nobu already locked, unless they pull pull out of Nats>

2. the winner of the Japanese Nationals.
<If Miki and/or Nobu wins the Nats, it will be criterion #3 below applied to the 2nd place finisher, no automatic slot for him/her.>

3. selected from
(A) the podium finishers at Nationals,
(B) GP Finalists, and
(C) the top three Japanese ISU rankers at the time of Nationals;
determined under thorough considerations.

It says this criterion "3" in particular is primarily for Oly Games and that the slot(s) for the Worlds determined by this "3" might differ from the Olys, which is to give chances to runner ups.

Akiko Suzuki already satisfies 3(B) and 3(C) so she is at the moment the closest to the Oly games aside from Miki in this system, literal-wise.

But of course Mao who satisfies 3(C) and who happens to have a god chance for the automatic criterion "2" is the strongest bet among those chasing the 2 slots left for the Japanese ladies.

ETA:
If Miki/Nobu wins Nats, the other 2 ladies/men sent to Worlds will possibly be different from those sent to Olys, especially the ladies.

[Bennett]

Dec.25th to 27th, JST.

The criteria of JSF in sending skaters to Olympics and Worlds:

1. the skater reaching the highest among the Japanese on the GPF podium (not off the podium) of each discipline, this under the condition that the skater competes in the Nationals.
<Miki and Nobu already locked, unless they pull pull out of Nats>

2. the winner of the Japanese Nationals.
<If Miki and/or Nobu wins the Nats, it will be criterion #3 below applied to the 2nd place finisher, no automatic slot for him/her.>

3. selected from
(A) the podium finishers at Nationals,
(B) GP Finalists, and
(C) the top three Japanese ISU rankers at the time of Nationals;
determined under thorough considerations.

It says this criterion "3" in particular is primarily for Oly Games and that the third slot for the Worlds might differ from the Olys, which is to give chances to runner ups.

Akiko Suzuki already satisfies 3(B) and 3(C) so she is at the moment the closest to the Oly games aside from Miki in this system, literal-wise.

But of course Mao who satisfies 3(C) and who happens to have a god chance for the automatic criterion "2" is the strongest bet among those chasing the 2 slots left for the Japanese ladies.

Oh, thanks! Great!!!

Wasn't 3(C) initially created to "rescue" Dai, as JFS was not sure in the beginning of the season if he would recover in the timely manner, IIRC? But now it seems to rescue Mao.

Then it seems clear that Mao would certainly go, no matter what. I do not know if it is good or not though, considering what happened 4 yrs ago with Miki.

[100yen]

So basically, Yuna wins. Mao is bound to pop, UR, or fall one at least one of her 3 3axel attempts. If she does, even if Yuna is subpar, Yuna will probably win. Plus then there's Mao's flutz and potential UR calls on her 2loops at the end of combinations. With the technical panel so strict recently, Mao would be smarter to abandon some of her 3a attempts, but the thing is, she needs them to have a shot at winning. Even with them, she won't get a 210 like yuna does

Someone is Yu-Na biased :sheesh:

[silverlake22]

Someone is Yu-Na biased :sheesh:

Heh. Maybe. If Mao actually delivered this season like we know she can this bias would be less. Plus Yuna is pretty , meaning judges won't give her bad scores even if she bombs because I can't find any other explanation for the medaling of Kiira and Laura this GP season other than their good looks....ice skating is becoming a beuaty pageant

[R.D.]

Well, it seems to be mainly the Finnish girls who are getting the "beauty points"

Still though, at least Kiira- her skating just doesn't do anything for me (looks, on the other hand ). Laura, I dunno- I've paid little attention to her but her SC FS was catchy.

And Yuna- well...maybe she's someone that one has to see live, because while she's clearly better than her competitors, I still don't get the BIIIIIIG deal over her.

[silverlake22]

Well, it seems to be mainly the Finnish girls who are getting the "beauty points"

Still though, at least Kiira- her skating just doesn't do anything for me (looks, on the other hand ). Laura, I dunno- I've paid little attention to her but her SC FS was catchy.

And Yuna- well...maybe she's someone that one has to see live, because while she's clearly better than her competitors, I still don't get the BIIIIIIG deal over her.

I've seen her live and it really does make a different. She is so fast on the ice and her jumps are so powerful! And Laura is fun to watch but she still only ever does 2-4 triples in her programs and gets really high scores

[Bennett]

Well, it seems to be mainly the Finnish girls who are getting the "beauty points"

Still though, at least Kiira- her skating just doesn't do anything for me (looks, on the other hand ). Laura, I dunno- I've paid little attention to her but her SC FS was catchy.

I do not necessarily think that they are getting the scores primarily because of their pretty faces (of course, it may be a factor). Don't forget that their skating skills are just fantastic. I really love their skating skills. I agree that Kiira's programs and technical elements may not be too extremely exciting to watch. Her costumes are also disappointing to me. Yet, her strokes are wonderful even though not extremely fast. Laura is a great performer and is a whole package that portrait specific themes. Her skating is very fast and she has beautiful techniques if and when she lands those jumps.

[Iscariot]

The other thing. Mao had a pretty good showing at TEB, and her score was 173.99.

mao lost about 19 points on that skate she got 4 dg the fall in the double axel, the pcs i guess should be up if she skate clean...
so i believe a clean mao can win over yuna, the problem is if mao can make a clean sp, but of course everithing is just a guess

[silverlake22]

mao lost about 19 points on that skate she got 4 dg the fall in the double axel, the pcs i guess should be up if she skate clean...
so i believe a clean mao can win over yuna, the problem is if mao can make a clean sp, but of course everithing is just a guess

Maybe...Yuna normally gets higher PCS though and if you look at her long program she has more technical difficulty than Mao even with the 2 3As. Plus Yuna's GOEs are huge and some of Mao's jumps look sloppy this season (don't know when that happened). If both are spot on, it will be close (maybe), but my guess is Yuna will win. Mao's program is a much bigger gamble though. Even though Yuna's been having some issues, her 3-3 and 2a-3t are still much more consistent than Mao's 3a.

People are saying "She will be impossible to beat" about Yuna for a reason. Mao is still all about the jumps, I know she's flexible and stuff but Yuna is as artistic and she is technical

[rossdale]

That is ridiculous. Kanako is not better than 15 year old Yu-na. Now Kanako may have had better basic skating skills and more polish than Yu-na but Yu-na was a MUCH better jumper (by far)

Yu-na at 15 was actually landing the 3loop fairly regularly, had her 3flip/3toe consistent, and was doing a double axel/3toe/double loop OUT of an ina bauer.

Kanako right now has a 3toe/3toe that's it. Has a horrific 3flutz that gets a LOT of minus GOE (for good reason), and no 3loop. And she actually has some questionable technique.

I like Kanako's style of skating a LOT. But she's not as strong technically as Mao, Yu-na, or Miki was at their age-its frankly not even close there.

Kanako has surprisingly mature and beautiful style at a age of 15. However she is not techincaly strong as Yuna or even Mao at her age.

[silverlake22]

Kanako has surprisingly mature and beautiful style at a age of 15. However she is not techincaly strong as Yuna or even Mao at her age.

You are right, but right now she is landing the jumps and that is what is most important. Caroline, Alissa, Ashley have odd technique and still manage to do well, if Kanako can just keep doing what she has been doing I think she will place well at senior events in years to come. Polina Shelepen on the other hand I think will lose her jumps soon and fast-her technique is worse than Kanako's, her landings are already shaky, and she is such a beanpole. She's 14 and 5'2" now and looks as though most of her growth is ahead of her, meaning in two years she's likely to be 5'8" and super inconsistent. But that's just my prediction.

[Mathman]

Kanako has surprisingly mature and beautiful style at a age of 15. However she is not techincaly strong as Yuna or even Mao at her age.

At 15, Mao won the senior grand prix final. She was jumping triple Axels in international competition at 14..