Answers for Johnny

Blades of Passion · Dec 8, 2009

Johnny needs to focus on getting all those jump combinations in and working on improving the choreography.

I would also recommend putting the 3Axel-3Toe at the very beginning of the program. He always seems to do that element best right at the start when the adrenaline is rushing. The Loop would go better near the beginning as well...he takes a long, slow set-up into that jump which becomes distracting later in the program.

If he's not going to try a Quad, then I think he should do:

3Axel-3Toe
3Loop
3Axel
3Flip
-----------
3Lutz-2Toe-2Loop
3Sal-2Loop
2Axel (out of a spread eagle)
3Lutz (out of a back spiral with the free leg held in front, like he used to do)

Tiana · Dec 8, 2009

At GPF after FS Galina greeted Johnny with "Hey, little coward". And then in the K&C they said something like:
Johnny: "I was scared... panic..."
Galina: "We should've got you to compete in summer".

I wonder if she wanted Johnny to try a Quad and he got scared, or it was about 3-2-2 combination.

schiele · Dec 8, 2009

Blades of Passion said:
Johnny needs to focus on getting all those jump combinations in and working on improving the choreography.

I would also recommend putting the 3Axel-3Toe at the very beginning of the program. He always seems to do that element best right at the start when the adrenaline is rushing. The Loop would go better near the beginning as well...he takes a long, slow set-up into that jump which becomes distracting later in the program.

If he's not going to try a Quad, then I think he should do:

3Axel-3Toe
3Loop
3Axel
3Flip
-----------
3Lutz-2Toe-2Loop
3Sal-2Loop
2Axel (out of a spread eagle)
3Lutz (out of a back spiral with the free leg held in front, like he used to do)

Would it be impossible to make that 3Sal-3T? I think it should be fine technically, although I don't know if he has the stamina.. That will bring him on a par with the likes of Oda or Lysacek in terms of jump content.
Besides I also never felt his steps or spins are problematic under this system. I find his steps very nice to watch and he gives a lot and is rewarded with the levels.
His problem seems to be with increasing GOE and PSC rather than levels. Since he cannot directly affect his PSC (all depends on judges) he can make sure he leaves no base points out there, meaning maximum jump content.
I hope he'll make it to Vancouver.. :thumbsup:

taylorfax · Dec 8, 2009

Tiana said:
At GPF after FS Galina greeted Johnny with "Hey, little coward". And then in the K&C they said something like:
Johnny: "I was scared... panic..."
Galina: "We should've got you to compete in summer".

I wonder if she wanted Johnny to try a Quad and he got scared, or it was about 3-2-2 combination.

hmm Curiously, I kind of think it might've been about everything? After the free skate he said he wasn't pumped beforehand and didn't feel like he could go out there and 'nail it'.
But even as I watched him skate I could kinda tell. I think his nerves are directly connected to his jumping ability.

In a way that while he might land them and rotate them, the quality of the jumps will suffer. This was not what he can do. It happened at Worlds when he won bronze and I thought I also saw it here. But this event was all about him getting his competition legs under him again, and he stood up under the pressure of the field, so that gives me much hope that it'll further go uphill from here, and he can present with some of his usual flair at Nats. I mean, in the SP he already kind of does.

schiele · Dec 8, 2009

taylorfax said:
it'll further go uphill from here, and he can present with some of his usual flair at Nats. I mean, in the SP he already kind of does.

Sure but obviously apart from the ending move with his hand and the pose? :laugh:

taylorfax · Dec 8, 2009

schiele said:
Sure but obviously apart from the ending move with his hand and the pose?

lol What about it? (ahahh I enjoy those crazy improvisations at the end. It's like with his Rondo Capriccioso program, he always ended it differently every time. :laugh:

)

schiele · Dec 8, 2009

taylorfax said:
lol What about it? (ahahh I enjoy those crazy improvisations at the end. It's like with his Rondo Capriccioso program, he always ended it differently every time. )

Well BoP had a very interesting take on it if I remember correctly.. :rofl:

antmanb · Dec 8, 2009

schiele said:
Would it be impossible to make that 3Sal-3T? I think it should be fine technically, although I don't know if he has the stamina.. That will bring him on a par with the likes of Oda or Lysacek in terms of jump content.
Besides I also never felt his steps or spins are problematic under this system. I find his steps very nice to watch and he gives a lot and is rewarded with the levels.

No the triple toe would be a repeat and with the 3A and 3Lz repeated in the BladesofPassion's hypothetical jump layout he could not repeat the toe-loop.

Johnny does not need more jumps to be competitive with Oda or Lysacek. They are all going for the same 8 triples (unless they plan to add quads by nationals/Olympics). If the men are only going to do triples then the best they can do is all six and repeat the lutz and axel which Johnny already does.

As othes have pointed out, where Johnny loses the points to the likes of Oda and Lysacek is in the PCS, not the TES.

Ant

Hsuhs · Dec 8, 2009

antmanb said:
As othes have pointed out, where Johnny loses the points to the likes of Oda and Lysacek is in the PCS, not the TES.

GOEs too?

http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpf0910/gpf0910_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

Evan BV 65.58 + GOE 10.02 =TES 75.60

Nobunari BV 64.99 + GOE 12.72 =TES 77.71

Johnny BV 70.35 + GOE 6.90 =TES 77.25

antmanb · Dec 8, 2009

Hsuhs said:
GOEs too?

http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpf0910/gpf0910_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

Evan BV 65.58 + GOE 10.02 =TES 75.60

Nobunari BV 64.99 + GOE 12.72 =TES 77.71

Johnny BV 70.35 + GOE 6.90 =TES 77.25

Yes the GOEs too but since that's often down to the quality of the element i'm not sure how much more can be done to make that higher other than go cleaner, bigger, higher, faster all of which i'm sure all skaters are going for whenever they set foot on the ice.

Ant

schiele · Dec 8, 2009

antmanb said:
No the triple toe would be a repeat and with the 3A and 3Lz repeated in the BladesofPassion's hypothetical jump layout he could not repeat the toe-loop.

Johnny does not need more jumps to be competitive with Oda or Lysacek. They are all going for the same 8 triples (unless they plan to add quads by nationals/Olympics). If the men are only going to do triples then the best they can do is all six and repeat the lutz and axel which Johnny already does.

As othes have pointed out, where Johnny loses the points to the likes of Oda and Lysacek is in the PCS, not the TES.

Ant

Sorry for asking again, Im confused.

BoP's layout has a 3A+3T and a 3Lz+2T+2L. So I thought adding a second 3T as a combination should not be against the rules as he would do only once in this scenario??

mskater93 · Dec 8, 2009

You can only repeat two triples/quads. If he repeats 3A and 3Lz, cannot repear 3T.

schiele · Dec 9, 2009

mskater93 said:
You can only repeat two triples/quads. If he repeats 3A and 3Lz, cannot repear 3T.

Oh ok, thx for the clarification. :thumbsup:

antmanb · Dec 9, 2009

schiele said:
Sorry for asking again, Im confused. BoP's layout has a 3A+3T and a 3Lz+2T+2L. So I thought adding a second 3T as a combination should not be against the rules as he would do only once in this scenario??

It's the "Zayak" rule which states that you can only repeat 2 triples (or quads) provided that one of the repeats is in combination, so if a skater already repeats say the triple axel and the triple lutz, they cannot repeat another triple or quad. I also think that for the purposes of the rule a quad toe is a different jump from a triple toe, so a skater could do 4T+3T, 4T, 3A+3T but could then only do one each of each 3Lz, 3F, 3LP, 3S.

Hope that helps!

Ant

schiele · Dec 9, 2009

antmanb said:
It's the "Zayak" rule which states that you can only repeat 2 triples (or quads) provided that one of the repeats is in combination, so if a skater already repeats say the triple axel and the triple lutz, they cannot repeat another triple or quad. I also think that for the purposes of the rule a quad toe is a different jump from a triple toe, so a skater could do 4T+3T, 4T, 3A+3T but could then only do one each of each 3Lz, 3F, 3LP, 3S.

Hope that helps!

Ant

:thumbsup::thumbsup:
Everyday you learn smth new..

I was so focused on programmes with quads, I've never even noticed this.. :laugh:

tae04 · Dec 14, 2009

Johnny needs to go for a quad, add more transitions, and connecting moves ala Jeremy Abbott's style of programs. Or else he has to settle on others to bomb to medal at big events.

mskater93 · Dec 14, 2009

Johnny has NEVER landed a clean quad in competition and the risk/reward now is too great.

Tonichelle · Dec 14, 2009

mskater93 said:
Johnny has NEVER landed a clean quad in competition and the risk/reward now is too great.

... it wasn't clean in 2008 nationals? *has forgotten*

mskater93 · Dec 14, 2009

I don't consider a 2 foot that would have gotten a carrot (<) internationally clean - that was a gift. He landed the same quality of 4T at the follow on Worlds and got <

Tonichelle · Dec 14, 2009

that's all any of the US men do most of the time, so it's not like it's just his problem. better that than squeaking out every jump like the guy who won that night did.

Answers for Johnny

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

Tiana

schiele

taylorfax

schiele

taylorfax

schiele

antmanb

Hsuhs

antmanb

schiele

mskater93

schiele

antmanb

schiele

tae04

mskater93

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

mskater93

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

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