U.S. Men: Who is on the Olympic Team?

museksk8r said:

Knowledgeable people are looking at points potential. A clean Abbott can outscore a clean Weir by about 15-20 points because of Jeremy's potential quad (which he has landed cleanly 5 times now in competition), his incredibly difficult transitions, and just overall smarter, COP friendly programs he has over Johnny. Abbott won a GP event this season; Weir did not. Abbott beat Lysacek's TES score in the LP at the GPF (and outscored Johnny in the LP, and should have overall too); Weir did not. A clean Abbott beat a clean Weir in the SP at the NHK Trophy by 5 points. I don't see that Johnny has this superior advantage over Jeremy as you are trying to imply. Jeremy has beaten a clean Johnny this season, but Johnny has not beaten a clean Jeremy. Jeremy has done impressive things this season too.

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Well, if you're so knowledgeable, then go back and check the protocols dear, because Weir did beat Lysacek in TES at the GPF LP. And I am sorry, but you're delusional saying things like Abbott beat a clean Johnny and everything else. No one cares who beat whom in what segment of competition (Takahashi beat everyone at the GPF SP. So?) Weir and Abbott met twice this season. Weir beat him twice. No matter how you want to spin it, that's how it's going to stay. And who cares that Abbott won SC this year, it's completely irrelevant to the Weir vs. Abbott debate because Weir wasn't even there. Every time they were together, and judged by the same panel, Weir prevailed.

You can sit there all day and hope for Abbott to one day skate clean or reach his mythical "potential" or whatever. I can just as easily sit there and talk about Weir's potential, his quads in practice or whatever else I can come up with. But if we look at what actually happened, Weir kicked his *** twice, and you just have to deal with that, oh knowledgeable one.

Wait a minute. Winning by two points is the equivalent of "kicking someone's ***." Really?

psycho said:

You can sit there all day and hope for Abbott to one day skate clean or reach his mythical "potential" or whatever. I can just as easily sit there and talk about Weir's potential, his quads in practice or whatever else I can come up with. But if we look at what actually happened...

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Yeah, I hear you, that's one thing that always kills me.
How certain skaters' potential is some magical wondrous thing that they're gonna reach any minute now. But we should just cross Weir's name over and root for the next best thing? Sorry, does not work that way.
The extent how some people get the benefit of the doubt and others not the time of day is mind-boggling.

Weir also gets a lot of "potential" talk... has since his debut in 2001

taylorfax said:

Yeah, I hear you, that's one thing that always kills me.
How certain skaters' potential is some magical wondrous thing that they're gonna reach any minute now. But we should just cross Weir's name over and root for the next best thing? Sorry, does not work that way.
The extent how some people get the benefit of the doubt and others not the time of day is mind-boggling.

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Exactly. You better believe that if the positions were reverse and it was Weir that lost to Abbott twice this season, everyone would be saying that he's completely done, has no shot at anything and should just pack it up and stop publicly embarrassing himself etc....

Tonichelle said:

Weir also gets a lot of "potential" talk... has since his debut in 2001

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Not according to some of our more knowledgeable posters...

ImaginaryPogue said:

Wait a minute. Winning by two points is the equivalent of "kicking someone's ***." Really?

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It's all Weir fans have because they know if he doesn't skate well at Natls he will be passed over again.

BTW, the last time Weir was National champion was the last time Sasha was too. Only difference is that Sasha won Silver at Torino and Johnny probably let a medal chance slip away.

I hope Johnny skates well at Natls and makes the Olympic team. I was never a fan of him personally but I respect his skating and think he has a chance to medal in Vancouver.

It is worth a ton of money for Johnny to medal in Vancouver and he knows that he will be forgottem quickly enough if he faulters again at Natls and misses the big show. I think Johnny has alot riding on this season and see that as enough motivation for him to succeed.

psycho said:

Well, if you're so knowledgeable, then go back and check the protocols dear, because Weir did beat Lysacek in TES at the GPF LP. And I am sorry, but you're delusional saying things like Abbott beat a clean Johnny and everything else. No one cares who beat whom in what segment of competition (Takahashi beat everyone at the GPF SP. So?) Weir and Abbott met twice this season. Weir beat him twice. No matter how you want to spin it, that's how it's going to stay. And who cares that Abbott won SC this year, it's completely irrelevant to the Weir vs. Abbott debate because Weir wasn't even there. Every time they were together, and judged by the same panel, Weir prevailed.

You can sit there all day and hope for Abbott to one day skate clean or reach his mythical "potential" or whatever. I can just as easily sit there and talk about Weir's potential, his quads in practice or whatever else I can come up with. But if we look at what actually happened, Weir kicked his *** twice, and you just have to deal with that, oh knowledgeable one.

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No, the Nationals judges of every nation needs to consider which of their representative athletes have the highest scoring points potential with the international judges. That's what the Grand Prix Series is for - to see how their athletes' programs and scores stack up against the best skaters in the world. If a cleanly skated SP by Jeremy Abbott scores an 83+ and a cleanly skated SP by Adam Rippon scores 75+ by an international judging panel, then that does need to enter the minds of the USFSA committee when they gather to select the Olympic/World teams. Fact is in a COP judged competition where both Jeremy and Johnny skate their planned programs cleanly, past results have shown that the judges' scores and the points code favors Abbott. Jeremy utilizes his maximum allotted jump/combination passes, which Johnny often fails to do. Weir's programs still appear to be tailored for 6.0, not COP. Jeremy's scores have been much higher than Johnny's when they both skate clean/relatively clean. I also believe a clean Abbott can outscore a clean Lysacek if Jeremy really does all he is capable of. Whether that happens or not, well, that's in Jeremy's, Evan's, and the judges' hands (and I don't dare predict what will happen when the pressure mounts), but the scores this season and last season have certainly shown that the potential for that to happen is there, if only Jeremy skates cleanly with all that he is capable of doing.

janetfan said:

BTW, the last time Weir was National champion was the last time Sasha was too. Only difference is that Sasha won Silver at Torino and Johnny probably let a medal chance slip away.

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as my mother used to say: "What's that got to do with the price of rice in China?"

Evan won on a technicality in 2008, basically Johnny lost because Evan plays better politics. and I'm not saying that as a biased Johnny fan, I've always been in Evan's camp.

I just don't see the need to get into this whole argument over who's got better potential. Potential does not win medals, it's what you do on the ice (and how much you kiss up to your federation) that gets you where you want to be.

Jeremy and Johnny have killer potential to medal, they also have killer potential to fall short - which history has proven time and again...

Tonichelle said:

Evan won on a technicality in 2008, basically Johnny lost because Evan plays better politics. and I'm not saying that as a biased Johnny fan, I've always been in Evan's camp.

Jeremy and Johnny have killer potential to medal, they also have killer potential to fall short - which history has proven time and again...

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Ahhh 2008...the year I will always believe should have been a tie--boo to technicalities and tie breakers.

IMO, the Olympic team will be: Lysacek, Weir and Abbott. The powers that be aren't going to be thrilled to give the spot to Weir, but they'll have to. Johnny's performances haven't been mindblowing (like they were to me at the 2008 nats), but they were pretty darn good and pretty darn consistent and we're seeing this beautiful buildup during his season. He won the bronze fair and square at the GPF with a hardy field, and like it was mentioned, did beat Lysacek in the TES score of the final. Both Weir and Abbott have proven themselves time and time again, but they're always discounted when they've had a bad competition here or there. Yeah, Abbott didn't do so well during the Worlds, but if my aging mind remembers, Chen Lu didn't even qualify for the LP at the 1997 Worlds, but won the bronze at the Olympics the following year with a performance for the ages.
I'm still seething over USFSA's decision not to send Johnny to the worlds last year despite their being so much precedence to do so in the past and despite the fact the third spot was his just as much as the first spot was the national champion's.

I feel really badly for the uber-cute Ryan Bradley. Who knows, maybe he might get a spot. He shoulda changed nationalities and become Azerbaijani (wait, forget that...they screwed up Fedor Andreev's paperwork), Jamaican or Irish. A decent performance at Nebelhorn and he would have sauntered right into the Olympics.