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Thread: Championship of Russia 2010

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by mycelticblessing View Post
    Has the federation announced which pairs team will go for the Olympics?
    Seniorita had put the list up on Plushy thread, i am coping that content and linking a translated link to the news

    olympic team yet to be announced.

    Russian Team for Euros.
    Ladies: Ksenia Makarova, Alena Leonova, Oksana Gozeva
    Men: Evgeni Plushenko, Sergei Voronov
    Pairs: Kavaguti -Smirnov, Mukhortova -Trankov, Bazarova -Larionov
    Icedance: Domnina - Shabalin, Bobrova - Solovyov, Khokhlova - Novitski
    Last edited by life684; 12-27-2009 at 12:52 PM.

  2. #302
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    I was really rooting for Iliushechkina/ Maisuradze to make the Olympic team. She is adorable, and has the best posture and line I have seen since Katia Gordeva. They have so much potential.

  3. #303
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Last edited by dorispulaski; 12-28-2009 at 08:46 PM.

  4. #304
    Loving pairs, dance and figure skating mycelticblessing's Avatar
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    Thanks life684!

  5. #305
    Dedicated follower of the black line Wicked's Avatar
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    I found D&S's OD really offensive. I hope someone talks to them and they at least get rid of the makeup.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wicked View Post
    I found D&S's OD really offensive. I hope someone talks to them and they at least get rid of the makeup.
    It may be viewed as such in Washington, DC, US. I understand that. Though here in Europe perception may be different. But yes, I can see how European dancers performing Australian Aboriginal dance in Olympics in Canada may seem offensive to ppl in USA.

  7. #307
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Well, I'd hate for the Olympic ice dance OD to be interrupted by a demonstration by either Canadian First Nations people in sympathy with Australian Aborigines who are being misrepresented or by Rev. Al Sharpton or Rev. Jesse Jackson because their opinion is that blackface makeup is racist.

    Do not say it cannot happen. The NAACP shutdown the University of VT's winter carnival in 1969 because they disliked the idea of fraternity students doing high kick performances with their faces painted green (in previous years, the face paint had been blackface, but the year they shut it down, it was greenface). Believe me, UVM is a small university in a small state with almost no African American inhabitants, and even fewer in 1968/1969 (which is when we moved to VT) If such an obscure winter carnival can attract a demonstration, the Olympics is a much more likely venue.

    The question isn't whether Europeans would be offended by blackface performances. The Olympics is not in Europe. The question is whether spectators at the Olympics in Vancouver (among whom will likely be many Americans and Canadians, not to mention American media) will be offended. If offended, they may boo, especially rude Americans

    Personally, I find it offensive that Linichuk did not even try to create an Australian Aborigine dance, given that neither the costumes nor the music, not to mention the steps are remotely similar to Australian dance. The music, BTW, is by Sheila Chandra, a woman who is South Indian in ethnicity, and who was born in London, England. Does she think ice dance fans are too stupid and will not notice?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Qoxn_B7eFM

    A piece called appropriately "Speaking in Tongues".

    However, it is hard on her students to bear the brunt of what criticism may come when Linichuk could have fixed this by saying the dance is a South Indian dance, and dressing in maybe Tamil village style. And by avoiding face paint.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hsuhs View Post
    It may be viewed as such in Washington, DC, US. I understand that. Though here in Europe perception may be different. But yes, I can see how European dancers performing Australian Aboriginal dance in Olympics in Canada may seem offensive to ppl in USA.
    I don't think the European perception is gonna love brown face either. They need to ditch the make-up.

    The question isn't whether Europeans would be offended by blackface performances. The Olympics is not in Europe. The question is whether spectators at the Olympics in Vancouver (among whom will likely be many Americans and Canadians, not to mention American media) will be offended. If offended, they may boo, especially rude Americans
    American figure skating fans are as supportive and courteous as any other. However, the brown face is just wrong. Coupled with the apparent fact that this aborginal dance is just b.s., the whole thing is a cartoon. O&K did a tribal-feel fd to African drums for their worlds fd that featured many similar crouching, quasi primitive type movements without getting into brown face.
    Last edited by nevergonnadance; 12-28-2009 at 09:34 PM.

  9. #309
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    I don't quite see the reasons for Americans, Canadians and - especially - American media to feel offended. But, true, the Olympics is not in Europe, and that fact should be taken into consideration, I agree. I know I would follow the rules. Just as I would put on a burqa if I were to stay in Afghanistan. To me it's the same. But I have no idea what DomShab are going to do.

    I'm a bit surprised with the easiness with which the European take on this topic is dismissed, but probably the hosting location outweights the possible difference of opinions.

    Some national traditions are very touchy business, like this Dutch one:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet

    By touchy I mean 2 lines in the last paragraph which read:

    Also in 2008, Petra Bauer and Annette Krauss, two artists working in collaboration with the Van Abbemuseum in Eindhoven, proposed a critical exhibition on Zwarte Piet, in which the racist and colonial overtones would be explored. The museum was forced to cancel the exhibit under threat of violence from native Dutch
    Other customs/ traditions disappear as the time passes:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chocola...hmallow_treats

    But I hope the tradition of making fun of pc is here to stay:

    http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bestand:Blanke_Kussen.jpg

    The poster says:

    "Caucasian kisses. Due to pc rant, from now on with white chocolate" .

    Quote Originally Posted by nevergonnadance View Post
    I don't think the European perception is gonna love brown face either.
    I'll make a wild guess and say ppl would completely ignore the whole issue:

    http://photo.fsonline.ru/main.php?g2_itemId=22362

    To assess the exact tone of foundation on some ice dancer's face and to compare it to his natural skin tone, and then draw the line reg when it starts looking inappropriate, I think, no I rather hope, ppl over here have better things to do. But of course I can't talk for millions and millions Europeans.
    Last edited by Hsuhs; 12-28-2009 at 10:34 PM.

  10. #310
    The King has arrived - no questions! plushyta's Avatar
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    Do not overdo it - the whole Olympics is dedicated to the local Indian population

    http://www.vancouver2010.com/more-20...m_89220ym.html
    Ilanaaq – Vancouver 2010 Olympic Winter Games Emblem



    For centuries, the Inuit people of Canada’s Arctic stacked rock in human form to create the inukshuk, a steadfast guidepost that provided direction across the vast horizons of the North. Over time, the inukshuk has become a symbol of hope and friendship, an eternal expression of the hospitality of a nation that warmly welcomes the people of the world with open arms every day.

    The Vancouver 2010 Olympic Winter Games emblem is a contemporary interpretation of the inukshuk. It is called Ilanaaq which is the Inuktitut word for friend.....
    http://www.vancouver2010.com/aboriginal-participation/
    http://www.vancouver2010.com/more-20...l-involvement/

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hsuhs View Post
    I don't quite see the reasons for Americans, Canadians and - especially - American media to feel offended. But, true, the Olympics is not in Europe, and that fact should be taken into consideration, I agree. I know I would follow the rules. Just as I would put on a burqa if I were to stay in Afghanistan. To me it's the same.

    With respect, these issues are not the same. Wearing a piece of attire, even one that is sexually oppressive, in order to fit into a society with acting as a visitor is entirely different that attempting to provide a representative demonstration of a cultural act or tradition.

    Please bear with me, but I speak from some experience as an African-American on this subject. The reason that this is a sensitive topic, particularly in the western hemisphere is that virtually every nation in the Americas was founded on the basis of either slave labor or deliberate usurpation of land from indigenous peoples by foreign powers or a combination of both.

    Regarding black or brown-face characterizations by people of a different race, the sensitivity lies in a very specific cultural and historical period. For some time until almost the mid 20th century, when darker skinned minorities were being portrayed in theatrical performances, the roles were very often played by whites in dark make-up. Aside from depriving racial minorities of opportunities to pursue work as actors, the portrayals themselves were often exploitative caricatures of minorities that traded in the most offensive stereotypes. Even once actual minorities started getting the roles themselves, rather than white actors, the caricatures remained. Millions of people in this country and Canada who lived through that period are still alive or were taught about it by their parents. It's so offensive that to event attempt it in public is just a non-starter. So to see it attempted, pure intentions or not, in an ice dancing routine is beyond shocking to a lot of people who think those days are long gone.

    To prove my point see how an American singer acting as a guest judge on an Australian variety series reacted to a black-face Jackson Five routine perfored by a group of contestants.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DhNJsU2N6Q

    As you can see, the cultural residue of these occurrences is still being dealt with across both continents today. There are deep emotional wounds among many racial and ethnic minorities and whites in the Americas that something like this just causes to rise to the surface all over again.

    Add that to the fact the Australian Aborigines were virtually wiped out across much of their own continent and it does not take a rocket scientist to see how there might be some feeling of solidarity among a North American audience with the people D/S are attempting to portray. The concern among minority groups and their supporters that D/S's make-up and overall interpretation goes too far should not come as a shock to anyone who lives in this part of the world. Linchuk should be well aware of this given that she has lived here for nearly two decades and raised her daughter here. It's likely one of the reasons the D/W chose to use Indian style garb, but not to artificially change their appearance (i.e. hair or skin color) for their OD.

    As far as other skating programs interpreting cultural themes goes, there was a decidedly mixed reaction among American skating fans (casual or otherwise) to A/P's FD at the 2002 games because it used vocals from Martin Luther King Jr.'s most famous speech, "I Have a Dream." Their intent was pure, but they were a bit unaware of how reverently people of all backgrounds in the US view that speech, especially middle-aged people. It's almost sacred. Using it in a skating program was seen by some as inappropriate. In fact, the NBC commentators stated as much at the start of the program. (see youtube) I had less of a problem with it than many, but my mother who is nearly 70 was very offended.

    On the other hand, K/O's African FD from 1999, was an attempt to incorporate the dance elements from some African cultures without being over the top with hair or makeup. I admit I was not crazy about it ten years ago, but not because it was racially insensitive. It wasn't. I just favored the more romantic,purist approach A/P took with their Man in the Iron Mask FD. However, looking back at the video, I can admire K/O's FD with fresh eyes and even say I have no problem with them winning that event. It's all a matter of degrees and taking your audience into account.

  12. #312
    Vancouver 2010, 247.23, Bronze
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcoates View Post
    Add that to the fact the Australian Aborigines were virtually wiped out across much of their own continent and it does not take a rocket scientist to see how there might be some feeling of solidarity among a North American audience with the people D/S are attempting to portray. The concern among minority groups and their supporters that D/S's make-up and overall interpretation goes too far should not come as a shock to anyone who lives in this part of the world. Linchuk should be well aware of this given that she has lived here for nearly two decades and raised her daughter here. It's likely one of the reasons the D/W chose to use Indian style garb, but not to artificially change their appearance (i.e. hair or skin color) for their OD.
    I still don't see why it has to be rude Americans (c) who decide the degree of (in)appropriateness of make-up used by a European ice duo attempting to portray Australian Aborigines in their dance, other than - as I'm told here - because of the place where the Olympics are held this time. The link may be obvious to you, but it is not to me. I don't think we can talk on behalf of Australian Aborigines, until we specifically ask them about this. If they feel offended by DomShab's act in any way, then DomShab should apologize and find a different manner of artistic expression.

    See, I don't think deciding for people of different cilture/ nation/ tradition when they should feel offended, is really pc. It seems somehow patronizing, just doesn't feel right.

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hsuhs View Post
    I still don't see why it has to be rude Americans (c) who decide the degree of (in)appropriateness of make-up used by a European ice duo attempting to portray Australian Aborigines in their dance, other than - as I'm told here - because of the place where the Olympics are held this time. The link may be obvious to you, but it is not to me. I don't think we can talk on behalf of Australian Aborigines, until we specifically ask them about this. If they feel offended by DomShab's act in any way, then DomShab should apologize and find a different manner of artistic expression.

    See, I don't think deciding for people of different cilture/ nation/ tradition when they should feel offended, is really pc. It seems somehow patronizing, just doesn't feel right.
    Perhaps I can make this a bit more clear. I never said Americans or Canadians for that matter were deciding any level of offense for indigenous Australians. I said they might tend to feel a sense of solidarity with them given some common histories. Americans and Canadians, among others, would have plenty to be offended by all on their own, which I think I clearly stated already.

    There is an apparent difference in levels of sensitivity in countries founded as colonies which contain rather violent histories and that have far more recent track records of having to deal with these matters than you are apparently familiar with. Actions that you look at with skepticism and some detachment are, to use a turn of phrase, seen as very black and white elsewhere. While many of the circumstances may vary from one country to another, I would advise you to research the ongoing struggles going on for non-Europeans in parts of the world other than where you live. Among the indigenous Australians, many of the issues they face in Australia today, mirror those of African Americans and Native Americans in the US. This was covered in great detail, at least on American television during the Sydney Olympics.

    This is not simply a case of Americans prescribing behavior for a European team and frankly I resent the implication, particularly all the "ugly American" talk. As someone else already stated, Americans can be and are just as welcoming, courteous and friendly as any other nationality. This is not a case of America vs Europe. It's a discussion about culturally sensitive topics. That should be a particularly salient point given that one of the goals of the Olympics is to foster cultural understanding, not entrenchment in one's own point of view. As I and others have said, the real fault for this even being an issue is Linichuk's because she is a long time resident in this country and has choreographed a number ethnic (African and otherwise) dances for her own teams and others (e.g. Navarro and Bommentre's OD in 2008).

    If you still can't see why this is a touchy subject for people, then there really is nothing more I can say to convince you. However, believe me, this is not merely a sensitive topic for Americans. Any country that has walked this path to one degree or another likely has citizens who can understand this point of view.

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcoates View Post
    This is not simply a case of Americans prescribing behavior for a European team and frankly I resent the implication, particularly all the "ugly American" talk.
    There were no "ugly Americans" implications in what I wrote, never have been. To me it's always about how America and Europe differ from each in many ways and on many topics. That was a rather suprising turn in your otherwise thoughtful and well written response.

    Quote Originally Posted by jcoates View Post
    As someone else already stated, Americans can be and are just as welcoming, courteous and friendly as any other nationality.
    Hm? I had no idea my posts were leaving that impression, i.e.that I needed things like that to be spelled out for me. Thank you for pointing out.

    Quote Originally Posted by jcoates View Post
    This is not a case of America vs Europe. It's a discussion about culturally sensitive topics.
    If this topic is a culturally sensitive one, and DomShab's OD appearance is going to offend people on at least two continents, then I hope they realize that in time and take all the the necessary steps to avoid that. Maybe someone will provide them with a link to this very thread, so that they can get an insight into this rather complicated matter.

    I think in the end you may be right reg the case not being about America vs Europe. Because those threads usually trigger lots of posts and sometimes end up in a heated discussion with an exchange of different opinions. But here, I don't see that.

  15. #315
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    It was another poster who said "especially rude Americans".

    I think you're going to be very wrong about ppl "ignoring the whole issue" of them wearing brown face.

    I'm a bit surprised with the easiness with which the European take on this topic is dismissed, but probably the hosting location outweights the possible difference of opinions.
    We haven't heard from Europe on this topic. We don't know what the "European take" on this may be. We have only speculation here about it, and I, for one, have my doubts about the accuracy of that speculation.
    Last edited by nevergonnadance; 12-29-2009 at 09:27 AM.

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