Yuna Kim | Page 108 | Golden Skate

Yuna Kim

kwanatic

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Joined
May 19, 2011
The new show she's doing "Kiss & Cry" premieres on Sunday. It's kinda like a "Skating with the Stars" type show...:)
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
A very good post even if it is poorly received by the CoP devotees.

Miki is a truly great CoP skater and has won more world championships than Yuna.

Olympic champion Evan Lysacek is another great CoP skater.

Those not happy with the current rules need not worry as they will be changed again for next season and most likely for every season.

Under the CoP being able to adapt to never ending rule changes is very important.
The skating itself has become secondary to the rules and the abilty to change with them from season to season.

I know this wasn't the point of your post and I generally agree with point of your post ....

.... But are we forever going to have to hear that Miki is a 2-time world champion and Yuna isn't?

Sigh. Yuna's Olympic Gold medal plus WC championship trumps the two WC golds from Mao and Miki IMO. That, plus the fact that Yuna has medaled at the last FIVE worlds - something that Mao and Miki have failed to do.

If anyone is a great COP skater, it's Yuna. This year, she chose to have the WC be her first competition of the season and unsurprisingly, she wasn't perfect. And yet, she barely lost the gold to Miki. If she had been perfect - or even a little less flawed - she would have obliterated the competition as usual. It's hard for me to see the case that anything about COP that truly disfavors Yuna at this point.

Just saying.
 
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kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
If anyone is a great COP skater, it's Yuna. This year, she chose to have the WC be her first competition of the season and unsurprisingly, she wasn't perfect. And yet, she barely lost the gold to Miki. If she had been perfect - or even a little less flawed - she would have obliterated the competition as usual. It's hard for me to see the case that anything about COP that truly disfavors Yuna at this point.

That was my point. It's unfortunate that she's going to have to shuffle her jump layout a bit, but I don't think it will make that much of a difference in terms of her scores/placements. She was literally a 2t away from winning this thing...and that's impressive given it was her first competition back. The nerves got to her and she made too many mistakes; Miki benefited. But had she got more mileage on these programs, I'm sure she'd have turned in better and more relaxed performances.

All in all, I think Yu-Na will be fine. She's got the talent to cope with the constantly changing system and the point is, when she's at her best she's untouchable. Even when she's 70-80% it's still tough to beat her...
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
I know this wasn't the point of your post and I generally agree with point of your post ....

.... But are we forever going to have to hear that Miki is a 2-time world champion and Yuna isn't?

Sigh. Yuna's Olympic Gold medal plus WC championship trumps the two WC golds from Mao and Miki IMO. That, plus the fact that Yuna has medaled at the last FIVE worlds - something that Mao and Miki have failed to do.

If anyone is a great COP skater, it's Yuna. This year, she chose to have the WC be her first competition of the season and unsurprisingly, she wasn't perfect. And yet, she barely lost the gold to Miki. If she had been perfect - or even a little less flawed - she would have obliterated the competition as usual. It's hard for me to see the case that anything about COP that truly disfavors Yuna at this point.

Just saying.

The point of my post(s) was not to knock Yuna but the CoP as well as ISU politics.

I thought Yuna showed better all around skating than Miki at the WC despite it being her first event of the season and would have placed her first.

mathman's point about not liking Miki but liking the CoP is quite astute..

Miki under Morozov is very much a CoP skater. So is Yuna but she offers more IMO.

I like both girls but think Yuna is clearly the superior skater.

It is how I feel about Racahel and Mirai. Even if Rachael manages to score more points than Mirai there is little doubt in my mind which girl is easily the superior all around skater.

CoP was supposed to emphasize and promote better all around skating.

Instead what we see is an exaggerated manipulation of the system that is not about better all around skating but is primarily about who can score the most points by whatever means.

It has just about killed the sport in USA and that is why we don't see much of it on TV anymore.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
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May 19, 2011
It is how I feel about Racahel and Mirai. Even if Rachael manages to score more points than Mirai there is little doubt in my mind which girl is easily the superior all around skater.

For some reason, that only ever happens at nationals...

Head-to-head in their last 3 international competitions (Olys, 2010 worlds, 4CC), Mirai's outscored Rachael by an average of more than 8 points...just a note. :) And yeah, it's obvious who's the better all around skater, both in the Miki vs. Yu-Na and the Rachael vs. Mirai. It all comes down to what happens on a particular night...
 

Jo1

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 28, 2004
The point of my post(s) was not to knock Yuna but the CoP as well as ISU politics.

I thought Yuna showed better all around skating than Miki at the WC despite it being her first event of the season and would have placed her first.

mathman's point about not liking Miki but liking the CoP is quite astute..

Miki under Morozov is very much a CoP skater. So is Yuna but she offers more IMO.

I like both girls but think Yuna is clearly the superior skater.

It is how I feel about Racahel and Mirai. Even if Rachael manages to score more points than Mirai there is little doubt in my mind which girl is easily the superior all around skater.

CoP was supposed to emphasize and promote better all around skating.

Instead what we see is an exaggerated manipulation of the system that is not about better all around skating but is primarily about who can score the most points by whatever means.

It has just about killed the sport in USA and that is why we don't see much of it on TV anymore.

Cinquanta's fault!!!!!
 

Krislite

Medalist
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
[...]

It has just about killed the sport in USA and that is why we don't see much of it on TV anymore.

I still think it's not totally fatal, just look at figure skating's popularity in Japan and Korea. A sufficiently dominant and charismatic skater can make people ignore/overlook the score and just enjoy the performance. Mao and Yuna are particularly influential for figure skating in that they draw in a lot of young audiences in their respective countries, which is critical for its long-term success. What the US needs is its own figure skating celebrity like Mao and Yuna, like Michelle used to be. That, more than anything---more than even an instant change into a perfectly fair judging system---would pull in more fans and aspiring skaters into the sport.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
It was on its way out in popularity long before the CoP

If that is true, in your opinion has the CoP done much to bring it back?

The scandal in SLC certainly damaged skating here and I believe many fans left when they realized skating lacked integrity and more importantly the WILL to clean house and kick out the scoundrels at ISU.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
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May 19, 2011
It was on its way out in popularity long before the CoP

I'd say it started losing it's popularity around 2004-2005. Once Michelle officially left, followed shortly by Sasha, the US had no one to promote and no star power left. When Kimmie Meissner and Emily Hughes were the best the US had, that's when the sport sang it's swan song in the US. Once State Farm stopped sponsoring it after 2007, that's when it really went belly-up...

The figure skating boom was completely in Japan by that point though. Mao was huge, Miki was world champ, Shizuka had won in Torino. They experienced what the US experienced back in the 1990s with the whole Tonya-Nancy thing and then the dominance of Michelle. Then Yu-Na became a one-woman promotion train and the boom ensued in Korea. That's where skating is the hottest right now: Japan and Korea. BUT, it's really heating up in Russia again. With Makarova and Alena, plus the Russian babies plus the reinstatement of Plushy, Russia is the next figure skating hotspot...
 
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Lilith11

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
I still think it's not totally fatal, just look at figure skating's popularity in Japan and Korea. A sufficiently dominant and charismatic skater can make people ignore/overlook the score and just enjoy the performance. Mao and Yuna are particularly influential for figure skating in that they draw in a lot of young audiences in their respective countries, which is critical for its long-term success. What the US needs is its own figure skating celebrity like Mao and Yuna, like Michelle used to be. That, more than anything---more than even an instant change into a perfectly fair judging system---would pull in more fans and aspiring skaters into the sport.

OT but are you an ontd_skating member? Just wondering because of your profile's location lols XD
 

prettykeys

Medalist
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
No, Kwan didn't have a consistent 3/3, she was a flutzer, and her spins were mediocre.
Whoa, just today I decided to investigate this further (just like I re-visited my favourite Yagudin programs after seeing you call him a "lipper" - he did some Flips!) but...

By the way, just for reference ;)

Michelle Kwan did all five triples different triples and a double Axel at 1994 Worlds, 1995 U.S. Nationals, 1995 Worlds, 1995 Skate America, 1995 Skate Canada, 1996 U.S. Nationals, 1996 Worlds, 1996 Grand Prix Finals, 1997 Worlds, 1997 Skate America, 1998 U.S. Nationals, 1998 Olympics, 1998 Worlds Qualifying, 1998 World Pro, 1999 U.S. Nationals, 1999 World Qualifying, 2000 Worlds Qualifying, 2000 Worlds, 2000 Skate America, 2001 U.S. Nationals, 2001 Worlds Qualifying, 2001 Worlds, 2001 Skate America, 2002 Grand Prix Final, 2002 U.S. Nationals, 2002 Worlds, 2003 U.S. Nationals, 2003 Worlds Qualifying, 2003 Worlds, 2004 U.S. Nationals, and 2004 Worlds.

Just saying…
Stop to tell a lie, M, and please remove the 1998 Nats and 1998 Olympics from the list and consider reviewing her other performances before claiming that MK did "all 5" standard triples while berating other skaters like YuNa. Flutz != Lutz. You can console yourself by saying "at least she tried." Or maybe you don't know what an actual Lutz looks like, and it's all just an innocent mistake? Let's take a look:

1998 US Nats (flutz): http://tinypic.com/r/rat252/7 - inside edge, inward lean
1998 Olys (flutz1): http://tinypic.com/r/66cc3r/7 - inside edge, inward lean
1998 Olys (flutz2): http://tinypic.com/r/1qiec6/7 - inside edge, inward lean

Let's consider that Lutzes were being done years prior:

1992 Olys Kristi Lutz: http://tinypic.com/r/2zqssxw/7 - outside edge
1994 Olys Oksana Lutz: http://tinypic.com/r/mc3ll2/7 - outside edge

Looks like somebody set figure skating back a couple years when she competed... If there's any doubt, go watch the clips for yourself at the times I took the screenshots.

(How can a coach send his skater into senior competition without teaching her all the jumps, spins, steps, turns, etc., anyway?)
Gee, I don't know. How could Frank Carroll do that?
 

fairly4

Medalist
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
you can't tell from pictures how kristi did, it stops,
michelle videos are to tell,
but kristi did flutz just before take off she change edge and lean, like most skaters back then did.
it is easy to pull up michelles most of her vidoes on youtube.
kristi, tara, sarah, and others aren't , you can't find a abc video for that. all you have is pictures and you can't tell from pictures--they don't show whole story.
 

Krislite

Medalist
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
OT but are you an ontd_skating member? Just wondering because of your profile's location lols XD

Nope. I actually came up with "Yunaverse" on my own, after first having seen the word "Yunatic" from SB. Since I consider myself a (rational) Yunatic, I thought such beings must live in the "Yunaverse". :laugh:

Anyways, back to Yuna news. Here is the AP article that mentioned some of Yuna's plans for the next few months:

http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_15881/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=3DXghcMs

An excerpt: "Kim said she also plans to travel to Durban for the final presentation and vote. After that, she will begin working on her skating program for next season with coach Peter Oppegard."

Yuna also has a skating show in Korea in August, and I think Kurt Browning, Stephane Lambiel and Patrick Chan are (tentatively) scheduled to be there. No official confirmation yet.

She's returning to Seoul from Switzerland today, and will continue working on the new TV show "Kiss & Cry" and other commercial stuff. In July she flies to Durban, South Africa, for the final IOC meeting and host selection. Then she goes back to LA for some training, probably new choreography.

Her "off-season" is pretty busy. :eek:
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
^^^to fairly's comment
I have to agree. I'm not saying Michelle didn't occasionally flutz (because she did) BUT she also executed lutzes. No, her outside edge wasn't as pure as say Shizuka's, Miki's, or Yu-Na's, but she did execute lutzes. The picture doesn't show where her blade is when she takes off; it's capturing where it is before she takes off. Oftentimes, the edge rolls (to the outside or slightly inside) so, I agree, the pic doesn't tell the whole story.

Prettykeys, I get why you're pissed. All of the accusations being made against Yu-Na are hitting a nerve so you're pointing to Michelle's flaws as that's who she (Yu-Na) is being compared to. I just want to say to not worry about it so much. Yu-Na is a very complete and exceptional skater, despite limited amount of things she doesn't do or doesn't do exceptionally. Nobody can take that away from her. :)
 
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doubleflutz

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 20, 2010
Gee, I don't know. How could Frank Carroll do that?

Don't step to Frank. He knew about her edge issues with the lutz, it's why she changed her approach from the traditional (and beautiful, imo) long backwards glide, to a much shorter one, with the change of edge to the outside comes a lot sooner. This hasn't gone unremarked on at all; it's in Christine's Brennan book, which is about as pro-Michelle and anti-Tara as you could get, even Dick Button made mention of her flutz issues at times, and plenty of European commenters straight-out called her jumps "flutzes". As in, "triple flutz, double loop combination!" :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

There's still degrees of severity flutzing. More than lipping, actually, because the jumps are not exact mirrors of one another; a flip is not a lutz done from an inside edge. Michelle's flutz wasn't as severe as Nicole Bobek's or Mao's, and she worked hard to correct it. She wasn't always successful, but she and everyone else was aware it was an issue. Compared to other skaters in that era who got credit for doing four flips in a program, that's pretty good. Michelle improved quite a lot later on, the period around her first Olys was pretty much the worst, until she got really banged up and old. She definitely seemed to be in much better physical condition, stronger and more powerful, for the quad leading up to SLC, and then her first couple of seasons with Rafael. Doing a proper lutz takes a ton of strength.

I really can't think of anyone who came up after figures who not only never shows a questionable edge on neither flip nor lutz, but has really excellent technique on both of them. At best, you'll see someone with stand-out technique on one, and who sometimes manages to avoid (e) on the other. Blame the loss of figures, I guess.

Edited to say: You might not want to site Oksana as an example of a lutz. Or any jump, really. You have to land on one foot for it to count.
 
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Lilith11

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Nope. I actually came up with "Yunaverse" on my own, after first having seen the word "Yunatic" from SB. Since I consider myself a (rational) Yunatic, I thought such beings must live in the "Yunaverse". :laugh:

Anyways, back to Yuna news. Here is the AP article that mentioned some of Yuna's plans for the next few months:

http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_15881/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=3DXghcMs

An excerpt: "Kim said she also plans to travel to Durban for the final presentation and vote. After that, she will begin working on her skating program for next season with coach Peter Oppegard."

Yuna also has a skating show in Korea in August, and I think Kurt Browning, Stephane Lambiel and Patrick Chan are (tentatively) scheduled to be there. No official confirmation yet.

She's returning to Seoul from Switzerland today, and will continue working on the new TV show "Kiss & Cry" and other commercial stuff. In July she flies to Durban, South Africa, for the final IOC meeting and host selection. Then she goes back to LA for some training, probably new choreography.

Her "off-season" is pretty busy. :eek:

Oooh, she's not using David Wilson as her choreographer this time round?! Peter Oppegard, how interesting (hey, maybe Blades' hypothetical appeal to Team Yu-na for her to skate to Miraculous Mandarin worked XD)! So she's pretty much confirmed for next season? Awesome! I really do hope that Team Yu-na is referring only to a new short though... hopefully, she'll keep her long and skate it against next season. Or at least keep it for her exhibtion (kind of like what Daisuke did with his Tango de Roxanne program :3).

So excited over Kurt Browning and Stephane Lambiel... wow I really envy the Korean fans this summer! Two legendary men's skaters on the same ice! Wowza! And yeah... looking over the off-season commitments, it's pretty obvious why she's contemplating skipping the GP; I mean, she'll be flying to and fro until July, has commercial commitments until August in Korea and won't really be able to 100% commit herself to training for a competitive season until August.

Lols, just asked since I heard that term first used on ontd_skating last year around Yu-na's Olympic wind and there was a post called ~News from the Yunaverse~ XD And true to that, we do (happily might I add ;D) live in the wonderful, wonderful Yunaverse with visits to/from Maosus and Kween Land with the ocassional chat with the Andomeda XD
Prettykeys, I get why you're pissed. All of the accusations being made against Yu-Na are hitting a nerve so you're pointing to Michelle's flaws as that's who she (Yu-Na) is being compared to. I just want to say to not worry about it so much. Yu-Na is a very complete and exceptional skater, despite limited amount of things she doesn't do or doesn't do exceptionally. Nobody can take that away from her. :)

Eh it's not just that, it's the fact that frankly, the accusations that are being made are 1). unrelated to the nature intended for this thread, 2). fallacious, and 3). using a double standard. :/ I get it, Michelle was a magical skater-- which I do agree with. But that doesn't mean Yu-na needs to be brought down to prop her up. MK's legacy is assured no matter what big new name comes down the way thus it's a bit annoying to see Yu-na constantly compared to her and subsequently belittled.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
I'd say it started losing it's popularity around 2004-2005. Once Michelle officially left, followed shortly by Sasha, the US had no one to promote and no star power left. When Kimmie Meissner and Emily Hughes were the best the US had, that's when the sport sang it's swan song in the US. Once State Farm stopped sponsoring it after 2007, that's when it really went belly-up...

This is incorrect. Skating was losing popularity even BEFORE the SLC Olympics, as measured in ratings and how many events were on television. By the end of the decade leading up to SLC, television was showing approximately 1/3 the events they were as compared to to the heyday of the early 90s. The sport was declining in the US before.

The next decline happened post SLC, of course. And then the general failure of the American ladies (relative to their peak, I add) hastened that decline. But those facts obscure and complicate the issue.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
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May 19, 2011
Eh it's not just that, it's the fact that frankly, the accusations that are being made are 1). unrelated to the nature intended for this thread, 2). fallacious, and 3). using a double standard. :/ I get it, Michelle was a magical skater-- which I do agree with. But that doesn't mean Yu-na needs to be brought down to prop her up. MK's legacy is assured no matter what big new name comes down the way thus it's a bit annoying to see Yu-na constantly compared to her and subsequently belittled.

Hear, hear! :thumbsup:

I adore Yu-Na and Michelle is my life! (Just kidding...kind of). I love that the two of them have such respect and admiration for each other, that's why I hate seeing them compared with such petty measuring stick. Propping Michelle is pointless because she doesn't need propping: the record speaks for itself. Same with Yu-Na; she's the standard right now.

I wish people would just leave it at that...:thumbsup:
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
This is incorrect. Skating was losing popularity even BEFORE the SLC Olympics, as measured in ratings and how many events were on television. By the end of the decade leading up to SLC, television was showing approximately 1/3 the events they were as compared to to the heyday of the early 90s. The sport was declining in the US before.

Regardless, before SLC and after, the US still had top contenders who made the podium every year. Commercial decline or not, the country was still producing champions and contenders which kept the sport at least somewhat relevant. Major stations like ESPN and NBC were still giving the major competitions the time of day. Of course the "boom" interest tapered off in the late 90s, early 2000s, BUT the US was still "in the mix" in terms of the skaters it produced. Once Michelle and Sasha disappeared, it was as if someone pulled the plug completely because on top of being a lower tiered sport, we had nothing to show. Ladies' skating was the biggest draw; our pairs/ice dancing teams weren't strong; pairs had Meno/Sand (2 bronze; 1 silver); 1 bronze for John & Ina, but no ice dancing team until Belbin/Agosto in 2005. Because of the connotation "male figure skater" carries in our manly man sport obsessed society, no one was tripping over themselves to watch Eldridge, Weiss or Goebel compete. That's when skating truly "died" in the US...
 
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