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Thread: Yu-Na Kim

  1. #241
    Always supporting skaters :) 100yen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalebsMom View Post
    Your logic inevitably leads to the conclusion that (1) spirals should be judged and scored in PCS department not TES; and (2) the most important factors of difficult jumps are height and speed, not the rotations in the air, so (i) no more complaints about Yuna's high GOE points on her superbly executed jumps with such height and speed and (ii) no more crybaby about 3A deserving more points for every jump should be considered in terms of such factors as height and speed as well as revolutions.

    Thanks.
    What? I don't think that implies it at all. Every single asepct of skating as a "presentation aspect." Spins need to be presented in a fast, way, jumps need to be presented in a clean way...so why not spirals be presented in terms of flexibilty and edge control? What you are assuming someone said just doesn't make sense.
    And I think it's a little out of hand to call someone a "crybaby" when they agree with you about what good jumps are made of.

  2. #242
    Custom Title Phoenix347's Avatar
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    Isn't this thread titled "yu-na news"? I think bickering about how GOE is awarded is not "Yu-na news."

  3. #243
    Waiting for on-ice perfection.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix347 View Post
    Isn't this thread titled "yu-na news"? I think bickering about how GOE is awarded is not "Yu-na news."
    ITA. Please take this to a different forum.

  4. #244
    Tripping on the Podium alfoalfo's Avatar
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    Yuna left a message to her fans on her website:

    http://yunakim.com/

    Any Koreans care to translate for us fans?
    thank you!!

  5. #245
    I love you, Jeremy! GiuliaPlum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfoalfo View Post
    Yuna left a message to her fans on her website:

    http://yunakim.com/

    Any Koreans care to translate for us fans?
    thank you!!
    Translation from http://yunaforum.com/forum/index.php...=420&start=420 Yu-Na forum, thanks Common!

    "Hello, everyone.
    I think I could get this good result in this Olympic games all because of the love and support of all of you fans.
    Thank you so much.

    Though there's not so much time left until the World Championships in March, I'll do my best to show you a good performance again.
    Thank you!"

  6. #246
    Tripping on the Podium alfoalfo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiuliaPlum View Post
    Translation from http://yunaforum.com/forum/index.php...=420&start=420 Yu-Na forum, thanks Common!

    "Hello, everyone.
    I think I could get this good result in this Olympic games all because of the love and support of all of you fans.
    Thank you so much.

    Though there's not so much time left until the World Championships in March, I'll do my best to show you a good performance again.
    Thank you!"
    wow that was fast!
    thank you GiuliaPlum and Common!!

    its so good to see just how much she appreciates her fans :D

    i read that she was ill from the flu, i hope she's well rested and better now.
    so yuna's definitely going to Torino?

  7. #247
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix347 View Post
    Isn't this thread titled "yu-na news"? I think bickering about how GOE is awarded is not "Yu-na news."
    Quote Originally Posted by dlgpffps View Post
    ITA. Please take this to a different forum.
    First of all, my apologies to both of you. I too always find it a bit uncomfortable to read off-the-topic comments but also couldn't help chiming in when zizi31 brought up an issue regarding "speed" in figure skating in the Yuna News thread, especially when Yuna's speed is considered as one of her many strengths.

    Quote Originally Posted by zizi31 View Post
    I don't get why speed is considered such a positive. I don't think that extreme speed adds much to the beauty of the performance (even when seen live), unless the skater is using the speed to punctuate some dramatic quality of the music or to express some emotion. As long as a skater isn't extremely slow, I don't seem an advantage to being very fast vs. average speed. Actually, Yu Na looks like a speed skater to me at times (Carolina too). I prefer skaters who're more graceful rather than just fast.

    Why does CoP reward speed so much? Is it that much harder to execute elements when you're going very fast? Or did someone just decide that it looks "better"? I just feel like there's a disproportionate amount of attention being paid to speed. To me, it's a very minor factor, unless a skater is so slow that it distracts from everything else.
    And please bear with me one more time for this will be my last post regarding this non-Yuna-News topic. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    Well, I have no complaints about Yuna's higher GOE for her jumps. So we agree in that aspect.
    Then I guess you would agree any final score of the event is an accumulation of the base values of elements and GOE points. Then what's the fuss about her +228 score? It was not inflated at all and she deserved every point. (If you hadn't complained about her "inflated" score at all, I owe you an apology though.)

    Quote Originally Posted by 100yen View Post
    What? I don't think that implies it at all. Every single asepct of skating as a "presentation aspect." Spins need to be presented in a fast, way, jumps need to be presented in a clean way...so why not spirals be presented in terms of flexibilty and edge control? What you are assuming someone said just doesn't make sense.
    And I think it's a little out of hand to call someone a "crybaby" when they agree with you about what good jumps are made of.
    I somehow ended up posting seemingly forever in this thread. The bottom line is, edge quality, ice coverage, and speed are basics of figure skating. Skaters need to control edges and skate with speed when they spin, spiral, and jump. And also they need to cover as much as ice when they stroke, jump, and spiral unless they want to look "small" (borrowing Scott's term) or juniorish.

    You said, for instance, jumps need to be presented in a clean way, then how would you define "clean"? If a jump is effortlessly executed with speed, I consider it's presented in a clean way. If, on the other hand, it's muscled due to lack of speed, it comes across "clumsy" to me.

    And spirals. You asked "why not spirals be presented in terms of flexibilty and edge control?" and I partially agree with you - I think spirals should be presented in terms of not only flexibility and edge control but also speed and ice coverage. Posters I didn't agree with are those who talked about balletic positions on spirals - Some posters who praised spirals with rubberband leg flexibility only. For I never liked Sasha's kind of spirals which lack speed, ice coverage as well as edge quality. It was not only low-quality but boring. Hers were never on the same level as Michelle's gorgeous spirals that cover so much ice with beautiful edge quality as well as flexibility.

    Again, the bottom line is edge quality, ice coverage, and speed are basics of figure skating. And yes, I think spirals with "flexibility" may be rewarded as long as they are equipped with those basics. But as Mafke mentioned above, 'beautiful' 'graceful' 'finesse' and 'excellence' are all pretty subjective, so please no more "skaters with beautiful balletic presence should be rewarded".

    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post
    Here, you perceive, is the problem. 'Beautiful' 'graceful' 'finesse' and 'excellence' are all pretty subjective. I was never that much into Cohen and found lots of others more interesting to watch. In Cohen's case her shallow to non-existent edges bothered me and her flexibility just wasn't my thing. At her best (last three minutes of Turin lp) she could even win me over, but it didn't work on an ongoing basis. On the other hand, I kind of like Flatt (though she hasn't yet figured out how to make her unconventional, for skating, body shape work for her yet). But I like the feisty can-do attitude.

    Speech is much more objective in that honest fans of both Kim and Asada can agree that Kim is faster. They may disagree on how important that is (which is fine) but while one fan's 'graceful' is another's 'boring' and one fan's 'feisty' is another's 'clumsy' everybody can agree on who the real speed demons are.
    Okay, this is it. I promise this is my last post not related to Yuna News. Thanks again for bearing with me.
    Last edited by CalebsMom; 03-14-2010 at 03:26 PM. Reason: Typos

  8. #248
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zizi31 View Post
    My problem isn't so much with the application of the current GOE system; it's with the system itself. There are very stringent criteria for +GOE on jumps, and skaters who can do them well get huge GOEs, and skaters who make even minor errors are penalized. In contrast, GOE criteria for other elements are much less strict - just because there are so MANY ways to get +GOE on spirals and spins.
    Um, why not? I think there is more than one way a spiral can be done beautifully. Michelle and Sasha had very nice spirals in different ways (personally I've gotta disagree with CalebsMom, I thought Sasha's spirals beat out Michelle's. Just exquisite, really.)

    Quote Originally Posted by zizi31 View Post
    It seems like anyone can get +GOEs on these elements (spins/spirals), even if they look bad doing them.
    Disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by zizi31 View Post
    This is a spectator sport - the visual appeal of the element should correlate with the score.
    The "visual appeal", to me, includes both form and motion.

    Quote Originally Posted by zizi31 View Post
    ...ugly positions ruin the beauty of the entire element. If the spiral has poor position, good speed can't save it.
    I agree. But good positions paired with poor speed/edging ruins the spiral for me, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by zizi31 View Post
    In contrast, a spiral with great position and decent speed is much more beautiful. For me, Yu Na should get 0 for her spiral - her poor position cancels out her good speed and edges.
    Well, I'd give YuNa decent positions and good speed/edges, so +1-1.5 GoE. I'd give Michelle's 2 GoE; Sasha and Mao 2-2.5 GoE.

    Quote Originally Posted by zizi31 View Post
    I think that no other factor should carry as much weight in evaluating as spiral as the position and stretch, because no other factor adds as much to the beauty of the spiral. So I suppose it's a difference of opinion in what makes an element good.
    Apparently, many others disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by zizi31 View Post
    To me, beauty is an integral part of skating, and part of what makes it magical for me. Your opinion may differ - the above is just my take.
    Thanks for dichotomizing the issue as "zizi for beauty, all others who disagree against beauty". The ISU doesn't seem to share your narrow opinion on what is beautiful in Figure Skating. I hope bringing it up in the YuNa News thread will succeed in changing YuNa fans' and the ISU's minds.
    Last edited by prettykeys; 03-14-2010 at 03:25 PM.

  9. #249
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    PrettyKeys, your response to what was essentially a personal opinion on my part was unnecessarily snarky and rude. The whole point of my last sentence was to emphasize that positions and line are what I consider beautiful, not to paint others as being "against beauty".

    What was the point of the last part of your post, other than to tell me "You're WRONG because nobody agrees with you; don't post your opinion and go away"? I expressed my opinion in a polite manner; you were confrontational and resorted to personal attacks. I will not be continuing this discussion further, since several people have asked that non-Yu Na news discussions be moved.

  10. #250
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zizi31 View Post
    PrettyKeys, your response to what was essentially a personal opinion on my part was unnecessarily snarky and rude. The whole point of my last sentence was to emphasize that positions and line are what I consider beautiful, not to paint others as being "against beauty".

    What was the point of the last part of your post, other than to tell me "You're WRONG because nobody agrees with you; don't post your opinion and go away"? I expressed my opinion in a polite manner; you were confrontational and resorted to personal attacks. I will not be continuing this discussion further, since several people have asked that non-Yu Na news discussions be moved.
    To me, logic and contextual awareness are an important part of discussion, and part of what makes internet forums magical for me. Your opinion may differ.

    Coming into a YuNa news thread and stating that you believe--just your opinion --that YuNa should get 0 GoE on her spirals ain't gonna be interpreted as "polite" to most users interested in this thread. That's my personal opinion.

  11. #251
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prettykeys
    Well, I'd give YuNa decent positions and good speed/edges, so +1-1.5 GoE. I'd give Michelle's 2 GoE; Sasha and Mao 2-2.5 GoE.
    +1

    +2

    +3

    +4


  12. #252
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Not bad but I would switch skaters 3 and 4

    Also for most additional spiral positions Sasha, and only Sasha gets the top marks.
    Although Caroline has beautiful positions as do Mirai and Mao.

    BTW, back to Yuna - Button is now OK with her spirals - although back at '07 Worlds he made a few funny noises when he saw Yuna's wobbly Arabesque position.

    But like many he has seen the steady improvement and for CoP requirements Yuna's spirals are better than adequate and get pretty good marks now.

    No skater is perfect but Yuna comes closer than any of today's skaters.

  13. #253
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    All's fair in love + lovemore.

    ETA: There's something about the way Sasha got into her positions that really had a effect on me. She didn't just raise her leg or push her arms out...she did this "BAM!" move that made it really dramatic. I guess that's not a figure skating thing, but it was like, whoa. (TO ME)
    Last edited by prettykeys; 03-14-2010 at 04:09 PM.

  14. #254
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    Festa on Ice 2010 cast

    Yu-Na
    Dom/Shab
    Brian Joubert
    Kiira Korpi
    Patrick Chan
    Zhang/Zhang
    Tomas Verner
    Ilia Kulik
    Shae-lynn Bourne
    and more...

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by ehdtkqorl123 View Post
    Festa on Ice 2010 cast

    Yu-Na
    Dom/Shab
    Brian Joubert
    Kiira Korpi
    Patrick Chan
    Zhang/Zhang
    Tomas Verner
    Ilia Kulik
    Shae-lynn Bourne
    and more...
    What a cast ! I totally want to see that!

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