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Thread: LADIES- Japanese Nationals (Senior)

  1. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    *ahem*

    What I said, and I still stand by this statement, is that in terms of how society views beauty, when judging a person's face, she is objectively homely and her scores have been lower because of it.

    If Akiko had a face as popular as Yu-Na's in terms of the societal definitions of beauty, she would be a contender for Gold.
    To me, Mao and Akiko have similar looking faces, and I don't think anyone in Japan has a problem supporting Mao. Both of them have cute faces as opposed to Yukari and Miki who have more mature looking faces. I don't think it really is that noticeable though.

  2. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    I know comparing junior and senior competitions is not reliable, but here's the scores for Nagasu, Murakami and Zhang this season

    170.41 Kanako Murakami Ice Challenge Graz
    160.85 Kanako Murakami JGP Torun Cup
    160.53 Kanako Murakami JGPF
    156.83 Mirai Nagasu Skate Canada
    155.38 Mirai Nagasu Cup of China
    154.92 Kanako Murakami JGP Croatia
    153.15 Caroline Zhang TEB
    132.46 Caroline Zhang Skate Canada

    Keep in mind junior programs have less elements. I wouldn't say that Mirai or Caroline beating Kanako is a foregone conclusion. They've both struggled this season, particularly Caroline. Kanako's worst score this season is higher than Zhang's best score! I don't think that there's an argument for saying they deserve higher PCS. Kanako is really expressive and skates with good speed and has good skating skills. She has nice maturity to her skating, too. Non-jump elements are also really good. I love Mirai, but she has major issues with under rotation. Caroline's can bounce back, but she's never going to get much GOE on the jumps and I doubt she can improve much on her poor skating skills in a few months.

    O/T - I'll scream if the US sends Caroline and/or Mirai again, for the fourth time! I hope juniors like Maxwell or Gao get a shot. They deserve it, IMO.

    As for Kanako, she was great. She really is the future of Japanese skating. I look forward to seeing more of her! Her skating is so expressive and musical and she is really well rounded.
    Yeah, I really don't want to see Mirai, Caroline, Rachael, or Ashley at JW again, gets kind of boring when the US sends the same senior level skaters there year after year. That being said, I really don't think Rachael or Ashley will be there, and if those two are out I really think the only threat is Mirai. She has worked at lot on rotating her jumps and landed 5 clean triples in her FS at SC. If she can keep it up I think she will do well. As for Russia, I prefer Anna Ovcharova to Polina Shelepen but she does not score as well at competitions. Polina is a good jumper but her skating is not the smoothest and even though she's 14 to me she really seems like she is 11. Kanako is more mature and has better presentation. She won JGPF even though Polina had higher technical scores.

  3. #423
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadia01 View Post
    Uh...I'm confused.

    Why is the US sending Caro & Mirai to jr level competitions? Shouldn't they be doing sr comps? Am I missing something?
    Because USFS sends the best hopes for a medal at Jr Worlds of those skaters not going to Sr Worlds/Olys who are age eligible.

  4. #424
    Custom Title Nadia01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    Because USFS sends the best hopes for a medal at Jr Worlds of those skaters not going to Sr Worlds/Olys who are age eligible.
    Thanks for clarification.

    Is that a lil silly tho? I mean, it's great that the US may get a medal or two, but they're depriving new talents from getting more experience. IMHO, if a senior level skater isn't good enough to go to Sr Worlds, she should just stay home and practice, instead of going to Jr. World.

  5. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    *ahem*

    I never called her ugly and I've been supporting her all season.

    What I said, and I still stand by this statement, is that in terms of how society views beauty, when judging a person's face, she is objectively homely and her scores have been lower because of it.

    We can deny it all we want, but peoples' emotions (including judges) are swayed by how much we like looking at a person and those emotions influence how we evaluate the person.

    If Akiko had a face as popular as Yu-Na's in terms of the societal definitions of beauty, she would be a contender for Gold.
    I really hope the judges are not so shallow that they discount Akiko as a contender for Gold based on her face not being as popular as Yu-Na's in terms of the societal definitions of beauty.

    And personally, I think Akiko is just as beautiful as Yu-Na is. They are both very beautiful ladies.

  6. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    *ahem*


    If Akiko had a face as popular as Yu-Na's in terms of the societal definitions of beauty, she would be a contender for Gold.
    I disagree with this. First of all, Akiko is a contender for gold. Anything can happen at the OIympics--remember Sarah Hughes? Second, Akiko's skating is not as polished or as artistic as Yu Na's, no matter what she looks like (and I think she looks fine). And finally, if Yu Na has an advantage based on looks, it is because of her body type, not her face (which I also think is fine).

  7. #427
    Dedicated follower of the black line Wicked's Avatar
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    I feel bad for Yukari, but Mao, Miki, and Akiko is the strongest Japanese ladies team for the Olys, IMO.

  8. #428
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chloepoco View Post
    I really hope the judges are not so shallow that they discount Akiko as a contender for Gold based on her face not being as popular as Yu-Na's in terms of the societal definitions of beauty.
    It's not shallowness; they themselves are simply influenced by their physical attraction to the girls as well.

    Joubert wouldn't get as high of marks if he didn't have such a handsome face either.

  9. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    It's not shallowness; they themselves are simply influenced by their physical attraction to the girls as well.

    Joubert wouldn't get as high of marks if he didn't have such a handsome face either.
    I think it's the kind of thing where they aren't going to hold you down if you're not super attractive, but if you are, then they might boost you up. This is my theory with the Europeans, Kiira Korpi and Laura Lepisto are both very pretty and medaled on the GP circuit this season even though they probably deserved to be a slot or two lower. Caroline Kostner is also very pretty and gets rewarded with huge scores when she is relatively clean. Same goes for Alissa Czisny.This is all speculation though as I have never seen these four ladies live and don't know if they could be skaters who are fantastic live.

    I've seen Yuna live though and I don't think she gets big scores just because she's pretty, she is so fast, slender, and elegant on the ice! And she has great posture and really performs out there.

  10. #430
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Well yes, of course, you have to skate (relatively) well too.

  11. #431
    Custom Title christinaskater's Avatar
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    I love this Akiko Kanako moment

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y76x5UDDTo4

    I really love Kanako, never have I seen interaction like this in a competitive event! Such nice people!

  12. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Well yes, of course, you have to skate (relatively) well too.
    That's a given . I think Akiko is pretty though. She is slim and athletic and has a cute face and nice hair. Not everyone can look like a supermodel like Kiira Korpi.

  13. #433
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    Can't believe we're having this conversation again. Akiko is adorable and irresistible. I can't believe any judge anywhere would hold anything about her appearance against her. She's accomplished and immensely appealing and she hit the jackpot with her programs, but she's not on the same level as Yu Na or Mao, hence I doubt she's a contender for gold. But you never know. And if by some miracle she won, I wouldn't mind.

    Overall I'm amazed at the Japanese ladies. They could easily end up with two of three podium spots and the one who's not even on the Olympic team could easily medal at Worlds. They put the US to shame! Where did we go wrong?

    (Not that I really care about skater's nationalities.)

  14. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    *ahem*

    I never called her ugly and I've been supporting her all season.

    What I said, and I still stand by this statement, is that in terms of how society views beauty, when judging a person's face, she is objectively homely and her scores have been lower because of it.

    We can deny it all we want, but peoples' emotions (including judges) are swayed by how much we like looking at a person and those emotions influence how we evaluate the person.

    If Akiko had a face as popular as Yu-Na's in terms of the societal definitions of beauty, she would be a contender for Gold.
    So it was you! For some reason I thought it might be the poster janetfan, as I frequently get the two of you mixed up, my apologies. And thanks for stepping forward, as I just now did a search of the COC forum, and recognized your comments, as well as your comment about Cynthia Phaneuf at NHK wherein you called her a "horse face".

    You have a right to your opinion, of course, we all do, but I don't agree with either one of them. Yet, my motto has always been I will support & protect one's right to freedom of speech, no matter how much I disagree with what one says.

    Your comments & other posters' comments just reinforce my opinion that beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder. We are all so diverse. Because I can honestly state that I have never seen Brian Joubert as attractive as others seem to. In fact the only male singles skater that I felt was drop dead gorgeous was that one guy from Canada, Fedor Andreev? or Andre Fedoreev? He's the one that tried to get citizenship from Azberitan? (sorry about the spelling) in order to skate in the Olympics. As for ladies, a young Katarina Witt was equally drop dead gorgeous (btw she hasn't aged as well as Dorothy Hamill has; just an observation, though I do admire European women for not doing plastic surgery, botox, et al, like the North American women do).

    Anyhow, I only point the aforementioned out to underline my statement that beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder. And on that note, as God is my witness, I never thought Akiko Suzuki was homely or unattractive, which is why your comments stood out to me (as well as the one about Cynthia Phaneuf). I liked her big eyes from the start because as anyone knows that has read my posts over the years I like big eyes, always have, they project so much, and remind me of silent film stars from long ago, wherein one had to had big eyes in order to portray emotion (same as traditional ballerinas in order to project out to the masses). This is one reason why I never quite got Meryl Davis, and in turn wrote a long post about her eyes last year or the year before. Lol, now I've gotten over it to a certain extent, but like I said earlier beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder, and that doesn't even take into account inner beauty. Nor how we all view artistry, et al. For example, to this day I do not get all the hoopla over Alexei Yagudin nor Jeffrey Buttle nor a bunch of other guys (e.g. Kulik). They're not my cup of tea, never have been, but I know my favorites do not inspire the same feelings for other skating fans as they do for me. So be it.

    As for your assertion that Akiko's face is holding her back, I have to disagree, yet I do agree with you about society judging a person face first, so to speak. This is common, whether going for an interview, applying for a modeling job, evaluating a potential mate, etc. But as it applies to skating, I think you are dead wrong, lol! Seriously, the only way it would matter would be if two skaters had everything else in common (i.e. jumps, speed, spins, skating style, personalities, body types, et al), then & ONLY then would looks come into play. Obviously the more attractive skater would win, and I would agree with it if I were on the judging panel, because that's when it comes down to the littlest things/splitting hairs. The more attractive skater would get the nod. But come on, when has that really happened in skating? To be honest I would say never. Even my overheated comments about the Finnish ladies was hyperbole.

    That said, I would say body type is more important in skating versus face, as it goes along with presentation/carriage/PCS in my humble opinion. Just like in ballet or modeling, if you don't have the figure, the height, the long limbs, you're out. Well in skating, if one doesn't have the straight knees, the turnout, the pointed toes, the carriage, the refinement, then one shouldn't score higher than the one that has those things as well as everything else. In other words, if everything else is equal, then the nod will go to the one with the refinement, as it should be.

    And the ONE that has it all, as it stands now, is Yuna Kim. She has everything & more, as I said at the beginning of the season, and state again now. And I'm not talking about her face, that's just a plus/bonus. The only way for anyone to beat her is for her to make mistakes, which I don't wish on anybody, or to outjump her because she has a 2+ triple jump advantage over anyone else, which I agree with. This is why I wish for everyone to skate their very best and let the chips fall where they may, same as the men. The absolute best competitions are when everyone skates their best and you win!

  15. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadia01 View Post
    Uh...I'm confused.

    Why is the US sending Caro & Mirai to jr level competitions? Shouldn't they be doing sr comps? Am I missing something?
    Most figure skating federation try to send competitors that are Junior eligible available skaters. By available i mean, athletes that haven't qualified for senior competitions (4cc, Olympics and World). the reason behind is to have better placement at the junior worlds enables the country to send more athletes to junior Grand pries.

    Last year Japan had sent Hanyu for Men's event, and Mari Suzuki and Haruka Imai for ladies event. all three finished very low and Japan was left with very few spots for this year's junior grand prix event. So in order to allow more new faces a chance, federation are focused to sent some not so new faces to junior worlds.

    So if Mirai and Caroline (both are age eligible) don't make it to the senior events, they may be send to junior worlds, if federation feels they have a better chance than the Junior girls.

    Quote Originally Posted by christinaskater View Post
    I love this Akiko Kanako moment

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y76x5UDDTo4

    I really love Kanako, never have I seen interaction like this in a competitive event! Such nice people!

    Thanks for sharing the video christinaskater, Murakami is such such a sweet girl (so is akiko), i have certainly become a fan of her.
    Last edited by life684; 12-28-2009 at 03:53 PM.

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