Hersh on Plushenko/Russian Natls Scoring

janetfan · Jan 4, 2010

oxade21 said:
It's more than a month to the actual competition and NA media is already screaming "wuzrobbed". God help us in February.

I suggest we should just hold two separate World events- one exclusively for NAs and one for European and Asian athletes.

What a bunch of whinys.

Don't look now but what in the world makes you think the Asian federations would pick the Euros over N. America?

Competing against the Euros the Asians would be badly outnumbered on the judging panels. Competiting against the N. Americans the panels would be even or even give the Asians federations a numerical edge.

And besides - I suspect the Asians would rather have the superior competition they would face gainst N. Americans, and since so many of them train in N. America it would save alot of travel time for them.

:yes:

oxade21 · Jan 4, 2010

janetfan said:
Don't look now but what in the world makes you think the Asian federations would pick the Euros over N. America?

Competing against the Euros the Asians would be badly outnumbered on the judging panels. Competiting against the N. Americans the panels would be even or even give the Asians federations a numerical edge.

And besides - I suspect the Asians would rather have the superior competition they would face gainst N. Americans, and since so many of them train in N. America it would save alot of travel time for them. :yes:

A lot of Europeans train in NA too, so what;s your point. Whatever they prefer, they never whine when things don't go their way. That's what makes me think.

psycho · Jan 4, 2010

Where was all this outrage when Lysacek was overmarked into infinity at the GPF? That competition actually mattered and the overmarking skewed the results. At Russian nationals the right person won, so who cares what his score was.

janetfan · Jan 4, 2010

oxade21 said:
A lot of Europeans train in NA too, so what;s your point. Whatever they prefer, they never whine when things don't go their way. That's what makes me think.

I do recall major whining by the French and then the Russian Federations at SLC.
They were very upset about getting caught

There was even counter whining as the Russians paraded Irina out with her bronze medal and demanded another Gold medal for Irina.

You know - I liked and admired Irina so much I would have gone for that. :yes:

oxade21 · Jan 4, 2010

janetfan said:
I do recall major whining by the French and then the Russian Federations at SLC.
They were very upset about getting caught

There was even counter whining as the Russians paraded Irina out with her bronze medal and demanded another Gold medal for Irina.

You know - I liked and admired Irina so much I would have gone for that. :yes:

SLC??? Are you serious? Russians were not the ones who cried their way for a duplicate Gold medal.

janetfan · Jan 4, 2010

oxade21 said:
SLC??? Are you serious? Russians were not the ones who cried their way for a duplicate Gold medal.

What makes you think the Canadians wanted "duplicate" medals?
I think they only wanted one Gold medal for the team that they felt won the Gold medal on the ice that night.

I think it was an extremely embarrassed / humiliated IOC that decided on two gold medals as the only way to get past such an embarrassing moment in skating and Olympic history.

chuckm · Jan 4, 2010

psycho said:
Where was all this outrage when Lysacek was overmarked into infinity at the GPF? That competition actually mattered and the overmarking skewed the results. At Russian nationals the right person won, so who cares what his score was.

Uh, I don't quite get your indignation over the GPF.

Takahashi won the SP with a higher score than Lysacek, and Oda was a close third.

In the FS, not a single man completed a clean FS.

Lysacek landed 7 clean triples (3Z+3T, 3A, 3S, 3F+3T, 3Z). He popped his 2nd 3A and had a rough landing on his 3 Loop. His performance was full of energy and attack. He's not a favorite of mine, but he does know how to sell a program.

Abbott had a bad fall on a fully rotated 4T, but went on to complete 8 clean triples (3F, 3A+3T, 3Z, 3Z+3T+2Lo, 3Lo, 3S+2T). If anything, Abbott was robbed in the PCS score, but he was also so far behind because of a bad SP that he couldn't have won.

Oda's FS performance at the GPF wasn't nearly as good as it was earlier in the GP. His nerves may have gotten to him, especially as he was competing against Takahashi. Although Oda did complete 8 clean triples, he popped two axel attempts to singles, and that together with his somewhat lackluster performance cost him any hope of finishing ahead of Lysacek.

Weir skated the best FS of the GP series, completing 7 clean triples (his 3F got !) but still did only two combos.

Takahashi totally bombed the FS, losing all hope of even medaling. He URd and fell on a 4T attempt, URd and fell on a 2A, did only a 3Z+1T, had a rough landing on a second lutz combo, and botched two of his spins.

We won't even discuss Verner's debacle.

So who do you think SHOULD have won the GPF? Takahashi took himself out of the running with his FS, Abbott blew the SP, Oda didn't deliver his usual sparkling effort, so Lysacek won by default.

seniorita · Jan 4, 2010

how the conversation on almost any article that talks about anything ends up in SLC scandal, i will never know :rolleye:

janetfan · Jan 4, 2010

seniorita said:
how the conversation on almost any article that talks about anything ends up in SLC scandal, i will never know

Just wait, soon a certain American lady will be brought into this thread.
And I don't mean Sasha :biggrin:

psycho · Jan 4, 2010

chuckm said:
So who do you think SHOULD have won the GPF? Takahashi took himself out of the running with his FS, Abbott blew the SP, Oda didn't deliver his usual sparkling effort, so Lysacek won by default.

Oda. Oda and Weir should not have been below Lysacek in the SP. And he won the FS on PCS. That's just wrong. Lysacek had his worst FS of the season too, not exactly a "sparkling effort" either. And then there is that issue of his 3A which should never be ratified in the first place.

When we have travesties like that happening, Plushenko's Russian Nationals scores is the last thing we should worry about.

janetfan · Jan 4, 2010

i love to skate said:
Janetfan, this poster hates everything and everyone from Canada. Their new signature should be "Blame Canada"

How can anybody not like Canada :scratch:
It is such a beautiful country with the friendliest people. :yes:

i love to skate · Jan 4, 2010

Janetfan, to each their own I guess! I think it is a pretty great country but I may just be a little biased.... :biggrin:

I sure hope we put on a good show for the World in February!

BTW, I just realized I have 903 posts! Jeez....I guess this is where all my free time is spent!

janetfan · Jan 4, 2010

i love to skate said:
Janetfan, to each their own I guess! I think it is a pretty great country but I may just be a little biased.... I sure hope we put on a good show for the World in February!

BTW, I just realized I have 903 posts! Jeez....I guess this is where all my free time is spent!

Try and dedicate your 1000th post to Joannie, or Patrick , maybe V/M or any other Canadian skater. Or maybe to Vancouver,,,,,,

Please don't use it correcting me

i love to skate · Jan 4, 2010

janetfan said:
Try and dedicate your 1000th post to Joannie, or Patrick , maybe V/M or any other Canadian skater. Or maybe to Vancouver,,,,,,

Please don't use it correcting me

Hey now, I haven't corrected you in a long time - I don't think :biggrin:

:thumbsup:

plushyta · Jan 4, 2010

Blog-blah-blog... for that and blog's serve :sheesh:

... the problem is not what someone writes on his own blog - the problem is when someone attaches itself too much importance, and uses the blog as a "propaganda weapon" to perform impact on judges and public skating

... of course, and we are "catch on the hook", and comment on someone's completely private biased thinking and cheering...

oxade21 · Jan 4, 2010

janetfan said:
What makes you think the Canadians wanted "duplicate" medals?
I think they only wanted one Gold medal for the team that they felt won the Gold medal on the ice that night.

I think it was an extremely embarrassed / humiliated IOC that decided on two gold medals as the only way to get past such an embarrassing moment in skating and Olympic history.

Exactly, that was such an embarrassment, and since they did not deserve the win, IOC decided to print them a copy.

janetfan · Jan 4, 2010

oxade21 said:
Exactly, that was such an embarrassment, and since they did not deserve the win, IOC decided to print them a copy.

If those facts make you happy I say go with them.

n_halifax · Jan 4, 2010

janetfan said:
Just wait, soon a certain American lady will be brought into this thread.
And I don't mean Sasha

Let me guess? Her name starts with a T?

jennylovskt · Jan 4, 2010

It doesn't matter how inflated the Russian Nationals scores were. You cannot use that score to compare with any international competition scores. After all, it doesn't count. On the other hand, I agree that it has exposed maybe the worst flaw in the CoP system which has to be changed. I think both Hersh and Smith have expressed such concerns on CoP. That was the positive side of these articles. However, Plushenko has put on a real threat on other skaters who have relatively good chance of getting on the podium. So the war is on. Started from certain coach and the medias. So what?! :laugh:

Bring them on, it's a great show on and off ice. :rofl:

I agree that Lysacek's outragous PCS at GPF should be a much bigger concern than Plushenko's Nationals scores.

ImaginaryPogue · Jan 4, 2010

jennylovskt said:
It doesn't matter how inflated the Russian Nationals scores were. You cannot use that score to compare with any international competition scores. After all, it doesn't count. On the other hand, I agree that it has exposed maybe the worst flaw in the CoP system which has to be changed. I think both Hersh and Smith have expressed such concerns on CoP. That was the positive side of these articles. However, Plushenko has put on a real threat on other skaters who have relatively good chance of getting on the podium. So the war is on. Started from certain coach and the medias. So what?! Bring them on, it's a great show on and off ice.

I agree that Lysacek's outragous PCS at GPF should be a much bigger concern than Plushenko's Nationals scores.

Agree.

Hersh on Plushenko/Russian Natls Scoring

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