Philip Hersh on Cinquanta pressuring Yu-Na Kim to compete at 4CC | Golden Skate

Philip Hersh on Cinquanta pressuring Yu-Na Kim to compete at 4CC

PolymerBob

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
I can understand both sides here, but I doubt that anything will come of it. It's not like anyone will ban Yu-Na from future ISU events.

By the way, I don't agree that Four Continents is a meaningless event.
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
If $peedy wants 4CC to ever become the competition that Europeans is, it just should be pulled back to the same time as Europeans or the week before/after Europeans. Until then it is always going to be far too close to the Olympics in an Olympic year and the amount of travel involved rules it out for any skater whose primary focus is the Olympics.

But naturally $peedy will never admit he's the problem, rather spit your dumy out about the skaters doing what is best for them. Idiot.

Ant
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
...spit your dum(m)y out....

I love all the things I learn from reading this board! This sent me scurrying to my Australian slang dictionary. :laugh: "Spit your dummy out" = throw a hissy fit ("dummy = baby's pacifier.) :laugh:
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
If $peedy wants 4CC to ever become the competition that Europeans is, it just should be pulled back to the same time as Europeans or the week before/after Europeans. Until then it is always going to be far too close to the Olympics in an Olympic year and the amount of travel involved rules it out for any skater whose primary focus is the Olympics.

But naturally $peedy will never admit he's the problem, rather spit your dumy out about the skaters doing what is best for them. Idiot.

Ant

If 4CC was moved back to the Euros date, then it would coincide with Canadian Nationals and be the week before US Nationals, and NO US and Canadian skaters would attend.

US and Canada would have to reschedule their entire National competitions schedules (including Regionals, Sectionals, Challenges etc. as well as Nationals) and for the US, that would mean major reshuffling and would take years to develop.
 

Nadine

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
No objectivity from Hersh, he sounds like a total bot (complete with video, lol:biggrin:), but this is nothing new when it comes to Philip Hersh. Prime example is his hateful attack of Jennifer Kirk back in October when she dared to criticize Sasha Cohen. I wonder if he ever apologized to Miss Kirk? I doubt it, knowing his track record.

As for 4CC, I'm glad to see over the last few years it has *finally* started to be treated like the presitigious European Championships. Hopefully one day it will be on par with the latter. Still, in the Olympic Season, I don't think it should be held nor should the World Championships nor Europeans. Skaters are too busy & intent on qualifying for the Olympics at their respective Nationals, and then putting everything they have in the Olympics, which only comes round once every 4 years.
 

i love to skate

Medalist
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
4CC will never be like Europeans. The set up for the competition is all wrong as it includes a 14 hr flight for a number of skaters each year. At least with Europeans, the countries are fairly close together and travel isn't much of an issue. I think many skaters see 4CC as unnecessary and resutls in more travel into their already busy schedules.

What would make more sense, to me at least, would be to have a Pacific Championship and a North American Championship.
 

starrynight

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 1, 2010
Anyways, the pressure of Mr. C on a specific skater does not seem fair to me, especially in the Olympic season.
 

gsrossano

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 11, 2006
If 4CC was moved back to the Euros date, then it would coincide with Canadian Nationals and be the week before US Nationals, and NO US and Canadian skaters would attend.

US and Canada would have to reschedule their entire National competitions schedules (including Regionals, Sectionals, Challenges etc. as well as Nationals) and for the US, that would mean major reshuffling and would take years to develop.

But the U.S. competition schedule has been moved around before. It really is only a matter of setting the dates and saying after the currently allotted Nationals, the new dates will be ... and do it.

The real problem is marketing. In the past Nationals was on top of, or close to other major sporting events (IIRC it used to conflict with or be close to the Super Bowl, or NFL playoffs?). They want Nationals to be at a time when there are few major (more popular) sport events scheduled. But if 4C is in mid-January, you have to be looking for dates in early December to give the athletes at least a month between major events, and now you are competing with Thanksgiving and several major sports. Plus, in December, Nationals would conflict with the Grand Prix Final which would keep major skaters out of that, so for marketing reasons, ISU would probably have to move the Grand Prix up a month to keep it a month ahead of U.S. and Canadian Nationals.

Once upon a time Nationals was even after the Olympics and Worlds.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
But with all this talk of avoiding football, the first weekend of Nationals coverage on NBC is airing directly opposite NFL playoff games.

The live coverage on the following Saturday is fine, but on Sunday- the recap show is airing against football, and the prime time broadcast COULD compete if the NFC championship goes long or overtime.
 

jcoates

Medalist
Joined
Mar 3, 2006
But the U.S. competition schedule has been moved around before. It really is only a matter of setting the dates and saying after the currently allotted Nationals, the new dates will be ... and do it.

The real problem is marketing. In the past Nationals was on top of, or close to other major sporting events (IIRC it used to conflict with or be close to the Super Bowl, or NFL playoffs?). They want Nationals to be at a time when there are few major (more popular) sport events scheduled. But if 4C is in mid-January, you have to be looking for dates in early December to give the athletes at least a month between major events, and now you are competing with Thanksgiving and several major sports. Plus, in December, Nationals would conflict with the Grand Prix Final which would keep major skaters out of that, so for marketing reasons, ISU would probably have to move the Grand Prix up a month to keep it a month ahead of U.S. and Canadian Nationals.

Once upon a time Nationals was even after the Olympics and Worlds.

Excellent point, it's all about finding an open slot on the calendar. In both the US and Canada, football would dominate the schedule and preclude major changes. Also hockey in Canada is a factor. Then there is Christmas to consider if you are talking about moving nationals to Dec. It virtually cuts the month in half. It's a major maketing risk to take, especially considering the fact that the approximate period for both countries' nationals is has been set for more or less three or four decades since figure skating became a real television sport.

Also, if both countries were to shift their nationals to December, then they would likely demand that the GP and other international start earlier as well. Their qualifying comps would necessarily have to move up, which means the season overall would be even longer, from say late August or early September to mid March or early April. Considering the fact that Speedy wants to add a team event after Worlds as well, the season could nearly reach May. That could be a major strain on skaters' bodies and the attention span of viewers.

It's the same issue tennis goes through with the Australian Open, Wimbledon, and the US Open. The season lasts 11 months for the top players with events every week and long, even months long, stretches overseas and away from training or rest. The French Open's placement is fine but the clay season may be a bit too long and lead to burn out. There are always calls to shift the majors' places on the calendar, especially Australia and Wimbledon. But the end of Australian summer holidays likely prevent the move to a date in Feb or Mar despite the tournament starting virtually right after Christmas. Similarly in England, Wimbledon can't be moved more than a week or two later, because citizens are starting their out of country vacations and the racing season, Tour de France and various international soccer championships all overlap. Then there is always the Olympics popping up every 4 years mid season and Davis and Fed Cup to cram in before the US Open as well. The US Open is actually a week or more too late, because the seasons actually change in New York mid tournament and the NFL season starts. But then there is more competition with golf and its final major if the even moves entirely into August.

So there are so many factors to take into account in a crowded sports field regardless of what sport you are talking about, but especially and international one. But in the end it comes down to ratings. Speedy may be facing a real uphill battle on this one. If skating RATINGS in the US were to rebound significantly, I think that would be the better time to attempt a schedule shift. Right now, there are too many tenuous factors involved.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I thought this was the most interesting part of the Hersh article:

Cinquanta said his letter to the Korean federation included a reference to ISU rule 136 (6), which allows sanctions against national federations whose skaters do not participate in those ISU events that have TV or commercial contracts

TV contract or no TV contract, I think it is difficult trying to force a sporting event into prominance, instead of letting tradition build naturally. Europeans has a long and pretigious history. I am not sure that Four Continents will ever be more than a nice place to send the second tier skaters who don't make the Olympic and World teams.

On the other hand, I hope the World Team thingy is successful. As a let-your-hair-down and have fun event at the end of the season, it faces no scheduling conflicts. Plus, the pay day is big enough to attract the interest of many top stars without coersion.

Wow. Despite all the talk denigrating him, Hersh seems to be pretty well respected sports reporter. His reach seems to be far and wide. He writes for the Chicago Tribune, a venerated and highly reputed newspaper.

Yeah, he is the only major newspaper guy who writes about skating at all. That's why fans have such a love-hate relation with him. We may hate what he says, but we love the fact that he says it. :laugh:

His column runs in the LA Times, too.
 
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i love to skate

Medalist
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
On the other hand, I hope the World Team thingy is successful. As a let-your-hair-down and have fun event at the end of the season, it faces no scheduling conflicts. Plus, the pay day is big enough to attract the interest of many top stars without coersion.

It creates a problem for North American skaters who have to get on another 14 hr plane ride at the end of the season. Many of them didn't want to go last year and turned in poor performances because of exhaustion.
 

jcoates

Medalist
Joined
Mar 3, 2006
Oddly enough, the old North American Championships could have developed into the type of prestigious event necessary (lots of OGM's , WC's and other medalists won it), but it died out suddenly in the early 70s when the old CFSA (now Skate Canada) decided it would be better to build Canada's own international event and so the Skate Canada GP was created. The waited years to follow suit and create Skate America. Still, now that we have an entire established GP series, there is far less wiggle room for other competitions. Ironic.
 

margiemo

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 29, 2006
The european championships is a much bigger event.This event is well attended.The european countries are quite close together and quite easy to get around.The four continents championship is a very expensive undertaking.There is major travelling involved ei Australia,Asian countries competing with USA and Canada.The skaters end up with jetlag which throws off their time clock etc because of the different time zones and more prone to injuries because of the lengthy travel time.
 

decker

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
The european countries are quite close together and quite easy to get around.

Exactly. Unless we can squish together "the rest of the world" that is eligible for
4CC, I just don't see how it will ever have the top-tier participation and thus prestige of Europeans. Even with scheduling changes of US and Canadian nats, e.g., 4CC would still be too close to some major event or another. Except when the event is held in one's home country, the distances involved are just unreasonable.
 

inside edge

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Yeah, he is the only major newspaper guy who writes about skating at all. That's why fans have such a love-hate relation with him. We may hate what he says, but we love the fact that he says it. :laugh:

His column runs in the LA Times, too.

a love-hate relation with him:biggrin::laugh::mad::banging:
 
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MK's Winter

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 9, 2009
I think we should dump Otto and have Scott Hamilton be ISU Pres with
Kurt Browning as VP:rock: !
 
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