Yu-Na's 3-3 combo at the Olympics

BlackAxel · Jan 5, 2010

After reading about Yu-Na on other threads, I wanted to start a new thread on whether Yu-Na's 3-3 combo will be called as underotated. Overall, I was pretty surprised at the choices for technical specialists for Vancouver. Without a doubt, having Myriam Loriol-Oberwiler on the panel will be intresting as she has had downgraded Yu-Na's jumps not only at GPF but also at previous competitions in the past. And in response to Yu-Na's jumps being "textbook perfect" and completley rotated, from my eyes while watching it on tv or my computer, they looked fine to me. However there are many videos posted on youtube that say the opposite and how Yu-Na has been getting away with the second triple in her 3-3 combination. Again, I am no technical specialists but the videos on youtube show a clear underotation. So my question is whether Loriol-Oberwiler justified in underotating Yu-Na's jumps?

i love to skate · Jan 5, 2010

There have been questionable calls in the past and there is no way to forsee if her jumps will be ratified. She has been known to sometimes underrotate her jumps in the past so it will depend on how she jumps at the event.

Bennett · Jan 5, 2010

She would have good days and bad days. It is impossible to know until she jumps at the event.

silverlake22 · Jan 5, 2010

Yeah I agree, it depends on how she jumps. Yuna has the best 3-3 out there but even she doesn't get it perfect every time. We all know she is capable of doing a great 3-3 with high GOEs though so I wouldn't worry too much about it. I wish she'd go back too 3f-3t though, I loved how that combo of her's flew across the ice and traveled so much. Her 3lz-3t is nice too, but I still think her 3f-3t has more "wow" factor.

adoreyuna · Jan 5, 2010

I think Yuna's jumps are a little bit inefficient. As someone has already said, many skaters have their toepick on the ice for a half-turn, their jumping technique is easier and much more convenient - of course permissible,(I'm not sure whether it is proper or not) but these take-off make it hard for other skaters to get more rotation in the air than Yuna's. Actually, I've never seen them.

I think Yuna's 3-3 jump,it can't teach that, it can't make somebody to that,
as British commentator said.

schiele · Jan 5, 2010

adoreyuna said:
I think Yuna's 3-3 jump,it can't teach that, it can't make somebody to that,
as British commentator said.

Chris and Nicky, you mean.. Yay, I'd take any opportunity to applaud them.. :love:

Btw, somebody better do a 3+3 at the olympics and skate clean (most likely candidate Yuna) cos I don't want a repeat '06.

silverlake22 · Jan 5, 2010

schiele said:
Chris and Nicky, you mean.. Yay, I'd take any opportunity to applaud them..
Btw, somebody better do a 3+3 at the olympics and skate clean (most likely candidate Yuna) cos I don't want a repeat '06.

Agreed. If we want to see doubles and triples we can go watch novice competitions. The little girls in Russia are landing harder jumps than the top senior ladies these days.

miki88 · Jan 5, 2010

Well, the judge may or may not be justified in her UR calls, but I think the debate over this is pointless mostly because no matter how much we debate over this, it's pretty useless. I think Yuna put it best when she was asked about the questionable judging. I can't find the exact quote but I remember she said that she thought her jumps were fine but she said that this incident makes her realize that she just have to be more perfect in the future to prevent these things from happening again. I think that is the right attitude, because the competitor has no control over what the judges think and decide, so arguing about it is pointless.

Figure88 · Jan 5, 2010

I'm not an expert on such things, but it is quite strange that Yuna has only been downgraded twice on her 3X3, which if I'm not mistaken she performed in every competition since her senior debut, and that was by the same by the tech specialist, Loriol-Oberwiler. She gave an "e" call during 4cc last season on her flip, which was part of the reason Yuna decided to change her jump to a lutz this season. I've also heard that the specialist has only been judging for 1 year before 4cc and it's usually customary that only senior specialist are used for major competitions.

Basics · Jan 5, 2010

Figure88 said:
I'm not an expert on such things, but it is quite strange that Yuna has only been downgraded twice on her 3X3, which if I'm not mistaken she performed in every competition since her senior debut, and that was by the same by the tech specialist, Loriol-Oberwiler. She gave an "e" call during 4cc last season on her flip, which was part of the reason Yuna decided to change her jump to a lutz this season. I've also heard that the specialist has only been judging for 1 year before 4cc and it's usually customary that only senior specialist are used for major competitions.

It was 08' COC where she got "e" call on her flip from Myriam, and there was also "shocking" triple lutz DG call. Myriam gave another controversial 3-3 DG call during last GPF, and she will be the Olympic tech specialist.

Basics · Jan 5, 2010

theresa said:
After reading about Yu-Na on other threads, I wanted to start a new thread on whether Yu-Na's 3-3 combo will be called as underotated. Overall, I was pretty surprised at the choices for technical specialists for Vancouver. Without a doubt, having Myriam Loriol-Oberwiler on the panel will be intresting as she has had downgraded Yu-Na's jumps not only at GPF but also at previous competitions in the past. And in response to Yu-Na's jumps being "textbook perfect" and completley rotated, from my eyes while watching it on tv or my computer, they looked fine to me. However there are many videos posted on youtube that say the opposite and how Yu-Na has been getting away with the second triple in her 3-3 combination. Again, I am no technical specialists but the videos on youtube show a clear underotation. So my question is whether Loriol-Oberwiler justified in underotating Yu-Na's jumps?

Huh? Do you really believe them? They are made by Mao bots. They attack Yuna what-so-ever. Most of the landing points are manipulated in those videos.

To your question. It's simple. If yuna lands them clean, she should be given the full credit. If Myriam decides to downgrade them, she should apply the same standard to all the other ladies.

chloepoco · Jan 5, 2010

GoPC2018 said:
Huh? Do you really believe them? They are made by Mao bots. They attack Yuna what-so-ever. Most of the landing points are manipulated in those videos.

To your question. It's simple. If yuna lands them clean, she should be given the full credit. If Myriam decides to downgrade them, she should apply the same standard to all the other ladies.

Do you think it was appropriate for Phil Hersh to link a video obviously made by a "Yuna bot" to his article? (Please don't read anything more into this question--I really am just curious about what you think)

so_proud · Jan 5, 2010

chloepoco said:
Do you think it was appropriate for Phil Hersh to link a video obviously made by a "Yuna bot" to his article? (Please don't read anything more into this question--I really am just curious about what you think)

It's not a matter of "who" made the video but rather of "what kind of" video it is. Is it made based on "truths"? Then, why not. Deliberately distorted? Then, should not.

Basics · Jan 5, 2010

by chloepoco
Do you think it was appropriate for Phil Hersh to link a video obviously made by a "Yuna bot" to his article? (Please don't read anything more into this question--I really am just curious about what you think)

I'm not sure if it was appropriate, but no, it wasn't made by "Yuna bot"

Was there anything that is NOT true in the video? anything manipulated, fabricated? insulting other skaters?

Phil Hersh may have thought that the video is pretty reliable, thus he linked the video to back his thoughts.

starrynight · Jan 5, 2010

There are a couple of common characteristics that I've observed in those videos saying that Yuna's jumps were short of rotations:

First off, they never use a HD version. Secondly, they cover Yuna's blades with a thick blue or red line or huge dots so that practically it is very hard to see where and at what angle she actually landed. Thirdly, sometimes they use a very uncommon front view for her jumps, which hides most part of the blade. Lastly, they mostly disable youtubers to add a comment.

These are why I can't give them any credit regardless of what kind of truth they stand up for.

so_proud said:
It's not a matter of "who" made the video but rather of "what kind of" video it is. Is it made based on "truths"? Then, why not. Deliberately distorted? Then, should not.

LoveFS4ever · Jan 5, 2010

Why do we need this thread? I can't see any thread like Mao's 3A or Miki's 3-3 at OG.
This kind of thread will hurt Yuna and put more pressure to her.
Her 3-3 combo has been good and just down graded once at GPF.
If Yuna jumps and lands well, she should be given the full credit and +GOE at the Olympics.
Same on other skaters.

Figure88 · Jan 5, 2010

LoveFS4ever said:
Why do we need this thread? I can't see any thread like Mao's 3A or Miki's 3-3 at OG.
This kind of thread will hurt Yuna and put more pressure to her.
Her 3-3 combo has been good and just down graded once at GPF.
If Yuna jumps and lands well, she should be given the full credit and +GOE at the Olympics.
Same on other skaters.

I don't see anything wrong with this thread. There are tons of repeat threads on Mao's performances in this section. If you feel there have been questionable DG on Mao or Miki's in past performances, why don't you create thread about it? What does it have to do with Yuna and her particular DG in question?

SkatingAnalyst · Jan 5, 2010

I've never seen a female skater did better or more rotated 3lz-3t combination than Yu-Na's in SP at GPF.

If somebody has videos that proves otherwise, pls show us.

I'm suspicious whether the specialist has any qualifications about judging not
only in jumps but also the over-all skating.

Specialist's job is to identify obviously under-rotated jumps and confirm it with
slow-replay. Not to make big controversies like this.

ISU better make sure...
They hire specialists with MUCH EXPERIENCE in figure skating.
Computer savvy is the last qualification...we need.

silverlake22 · Jan 5, 2010

SkatingAnalyst said:
I've never seen a female skater did better or more rotated 3lz-3t combination than Yu-Na's in SP at GPF.

If somebody has videos that proves otherwise, pls show us.

I'm suspicious whether the specialist has any qualifications about judging not
only in jumps but also the over-all skating.

Specialist's job is to identify obviously under-rotated jumps and confirm it with
slow-replay. Not to make big controversies like this.

ISU better make sure...
They hire specialists with MUCH EXPERIENCE in figure skating.
Computer savvy is the last qualification...we need.

I feel like CoP is too intense with these UR calls. Skaters aren't supposed to get them unless the jump is more than 1/4 turn cheated....Yuna's 3-3 at the GPF was in no way more than 1/4 cheated, it was maybe 1/8 of a turn cheated at most. Kimmie used to do UR 3lz-3t and didn't get called out on it until the 2008 season when she imploded. I actually think UR calls are the reason she stopped doing well...if UR calls weren't so strict i'm sure we'd be seeing Mao, Miki, Mirai, Joannie attempt them all the time. With the CoP now though, it's almost not worth it to even try unless you have a very solid 3-3 like Yuna does, Rachael too. I think Caroline Zhang should probably stop attempting 3-3 in competitions because it seems like she hasn't gotten it ratified in over a year.

Basics · Jan 5, 2010

LoveFS4ever said:
Why do we need this thread? I can't see any thread like Mao's 3A or Miki's 3-3 at OG.
This kind of thread will hurt Yuna and put more pressure to her.
Her 3-3 combo has been good and just down graded once at GPF.
If Yuna jumps and lands well, she should be given the full credit and +GOE at the Olympics.
Same on other skaters.

I agree with you. Reading this poster's past posts, this person is really interested in Mao and Oda. So I had to wonder what the intention might have been behind this post. To fuel up the controversy, so everyone will start to doubt about her 3-3 combination in future? Or am I being too paranoid?

Yu-Na's 3-3 combo at the Olympics

BlackAxel

i love to skate

Bennett

silverlake22

adoreyuna

schiele

silverlake22

miki88

Figure88

Basics

Basics

chloepoco

so_proud

Basics

starrynight

LoveFS4ever

Figure88

SkatingAnalyst

silverlake22

Basics

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