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Thread: ISU evaluation of questionable judging

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    ISU evaluation of questionable judging

    The ISU has a procedure for spotting and evaluating possible instances of bias or incompetence on the part of judges. If an individual judges gives a score that is outside a certain (quite generous) "corridore" about the average of the other judges, then that errant score is flagged by the computer and reported as an "anomaly."

    These anomalies are reviewed by an ISU committee and if the judge in question cannot justify the marks, then the ISU issues an "Assessment" (warning). After three assessments in a season the ISU can impose some sort of "sanction," like not assigning that judge to any major competitions for a certain amount of time.

    This document lists the number of such Assessments that were given out last year (section 11, page 5).

    http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=1475

    A total of 17 warning were given. Two judges each received two warnings. No one received three warnings.

    Of these warnings, 10 were on program components, 4 were on technical elements, 2 were for both, and one was for a poor referee's report.

    By the way, section 10 of this same document specifies the procedure ny which members can submit proposals for future rules changes.

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    n_halifax
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    Once again, gotta love that anonymity...

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    Quote Originally Posted by n_halifax View Post
    Once again, gotta love that anonymity...
    I really don't understand all the fuss over annoymous judging. The ISU knows who the judges are, we as fans aren't entitled to that information - just as we aren't entitled to reviews of officials in other sports. In 6.0 we had judges that were visible to everyone. In the last three Olympics that used 6.0 - 2002, 1998, 1994 - all had some sort of scandal, controversy, public outrage over some of the results. The one Olympics with annoymous judging (2006) that we have had so far, was controversy free! Let's see how things go in Vancouver
    Last edited by i love to skate; 01-14-2010 at 08:24 AM. Reason: correction

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    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    I really don't understand all the fuss over annoymous judging. The governing bodies know who the judges are, we as fans aren't entitled to that information - just as we aren't entitled to reviews of officials in other sports. In 6.0 we had judges that were visible to everyone. In the last three Olympics that used 6.0 - 2002, 1998, 1994 - all had some sort of scandal, controversy, public outrage over some of the results. The one Olympics with annoymous judging (2006) that we have had so far, was controversy free! Let's see how things go in Vancouver
    I would think for most people, anything done anonymously is done with less accountability and therefore with less obligation to follow rules. Imagine if we could drive anonymously. Would driving be as safe?

    We do review officials in other sports. We see them make calls and TV networks replay the activity countless times. I see the lack as accountability to the fans (anonymous judges) as a major flaw that needs to be corrected if CoP advocates want CoP to survive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptolemy View Post
    I would think for most people, anything done anonymously is done with less accountability and therefore with less obligation to follow rules. Imagine if we could drive anonymously. Would driving be as safe?

    We do review officials in other sports. We see them make calls and TV networks replay the activity countless times. I see the lack as accountability to the fans (anonymous judges) as a major flaw that needs to be corrected if CoP advocates want CoP to survive.
    But it's not annoymous - the federation (ISU) knows exactly who is giving out what mark. That's the beauty of computers - you can't hide from anything. All I am saying, is let's give it another Olympics as the first one worked out pretty well.
    Last edited by i love to skate; 01-13-2010 at 10:11 PM. Reason: needed to make a correction

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    The ISU was given a HUGE gift in Torino, though. Can you think of an Olympics where the results were simply that uncontestable?

    The reason anonymous judging rankles is that if it's in the ISU's best interest, it allows them the capability to downplay a scandal, should one arise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    I really don't understand all the fuss over annoymous judging. The governing bodies know who the judges are, we as fans aren't entitled to that information - just as we aren't entitled to reviews of officials in other sports. In 6.0 we had judges that were visible to everyone. In the last three Olympics that used 6.0 - 2002, 1998, 1994 - all had some sort of scandal, controversy, public outrage over some of the results. The one Olympics with annoymous judging (2006) that we have had so far, was controversy free! Let's see how things go in Vancouver
    ITA. Just how often do you actually see an official in any sport disciplined publicly. It isn't the fans job to decide this it is the sports governing bodies job no matter what sport.
    Last edited by sk8rdad; 01-13-2010 at 08:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8rdad View Post
    ITA. Just how often do you actually see an official in any sport disciplined publicly. It isn't the fans job to decide this it is the sports governing bodies job no matter what sport.
    Anonymous judging provides the ISU with the opportunity to favor certain skaters.

    In other sports Coaches are frequently required to pay fines for criticizing officials. The press will criticize bad calls by officials. I think the paying fans do hold the governing bodies accountable in other sports.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8rdad View Post
    ITA. Just how often do you actually see an official in any sport disciplined publicly. It isn't the fans job to decide this it is the sports governing bodies job no matter what sport.
    Oh good, someone agrees with me! I was thinking I was way out in left field

    Quote Originally Posted by Ptolemy View Post
    Anonymous judging provides the ISU with the opportunity to favor certain skaters.

    In other sports Coaches are frequently required to pay fines for criticizing officials. The press will criticize bad calls by officials. I think the paying fans do hold the governing bodies accountable in other sports.
    How does it allow the opportunity? Please explain.

    Also, fans have little impact on governing bodies. Again, look at the NHL, they fined a player for speaking out against an official who made a blatant call against him for revenge from an earlier game. What happened to the referee? Absolutely nothing. The NHL hasn't even made a statement on it and it was two days ago. There's nothing the fans can do.

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    If the ISU wants a little practice with questionable judging, tell them we will be holding a seminar in Spokane next week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    Again, look at the NHL, they fined a player for speaking out against an official who made a blatant call against him for revenge from an earlier game. What happened to the referee? Absolutely nothing. The NHL hasn't even made a statement on it and it was two days ago. There's nothing the fans can do.
    Do you think that this action by the NHL was good or bad? Do you think that this action enhances the esteem in which the public holds the NHL, or diminishes it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Do you think that this action by the NHL was good or bad? Do you think that this action enhances the esteem in which the public holds the NHL, or diminishes it?
    The NHL could never diminish the esteem I have for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Do you think that this action by the NHL was good or bad? Do you think that this action enhances the esteem in which the public holds the NHL, or diminishes it?
    That's the point though - fans have little influence on organizations. The NHL doesn't care about the fans perception about them - yes the public is outraged but it was all handled "internally" and we will probably never know exactly what happened. However, is this going to affect the NHL in anyway? Nope, people are still going to watch the games on TV, buy tickets to the games, and buy merchandise.

    It's the same as figure skating fans - as much as people complain the majority will always come back and new ones are being developed everyday. What other amateur sport could recover from a scandal that rocked it to it's core? I don't know of another one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    That's the point though - fans have little influence on organizations. The NHL doesn't care about the fans perception about them - ...
    Well, we are not really talking about how wicked, mean and callous sports organizations like the NHL, the ISU, Skate Canada, etc., are. We are talikg about whether they should treat their fans better.

    Your argument seems to be that since the NHL are a bunch or jerks, so should the ISU be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Well, we are not really talking about how wicked, mean and callous sports organizations like the NHL, the ISU, Skate Canada, etc., are. We are talikg about whether they should treat their fans better.

    Your argument seems to be that since the NHL are a bunch or jerks, so should the ISU be.
    I didn't think we were talking about that at all . The topic was annoymous judging and the steps to discipline judges who stray. My point was that there are certain aspects of sport organizations that are handled internally and that's just the way it is.

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