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Thread: Jeremy Abbott

  1. #46
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    ^^ Yeah, Jeremy's skating is amazing! I love him too. The reason that I am a little reserved on hoping is that I don't know if he could be consistant enough at the Olympics. Also, I don't know what the judges would think comparing him with the international big names.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by jennylovskt View Post
    ^^ Yeah, Jeremy's skating is amazing! I love him too. The reason that I am a little reserved on hoping is that I don't know if he could be consistant enough at the Olympics. Also, I don't know what the judges would think comparing him with the international big names.
    Jeremy has only to skate as well at the Olympics as he did at Nationals. Remember Paul Wylie? He hadn't finished any higher than 10th at Worlds before the 1992 Olympics, but he skated his way to an Olympic silver medal.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jennylovskt View Post
    ^^ Yeah, Jeremy's skating is amazing! I love him too. The reason that I am a little reserved on hoping is that I don't know if he could be consistant enough at the Olympics. Also, I don't know what the judges would think comparing him with the international big names.
    But isn't that the whole point of the CoP? To stop "comparing" skaters and just score them fairly by the way they perform the various jumps and elements?

    I think we can look at US Natls and see how the CoP scored Rachael and Mirai. Rachael clearly won the jump battle and although nobody thinks her skating is as beautiful as Mirai's her pcs were scored as equal to Mirai.

    Won't this happen to Jeremy too? Unfortunately reputation scoring is alive and well - but there is more to consider than that.
    I wonder if the scoring system is capable of rewarding superior non-jump elements in a fair and realistic manner?
    Last edited by janetfan; 02-02-2010 at 07:36 AM.

  4. #49
    I love you, Jeremy! GiuliaPlum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Q & A article published today: Abbott Flies High Under the Radar
    He's always adorable and humble, even in his tweets. He seems the perfect best-friend type for everyone.Very refreshing,compared to Plushenko or Weir. He's the only male skater I love (but I like Stephane,an other adorable personality).

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    But isn't that the whole point of the CoP? To stop "comparing" skaters and just score them fairly by the way they perform the various jumps and elements?

    I think we can look at US Natls and see how the CoP scored Rachael and Mirai. Rachael clearly won the jump battle and although nobody thinks her skating is as beautiful as Mirai's her pcs were scored as equal to Mirai.

    Won't this happen to Jeremy too? Unfortunately reputation scoring is alive and well - but there is more to consider than that.
    I wonder if the scoring system is capable of rewarding superior non-jump elements in a fair and realistic manner?
    I don't know. I just feel (not technically, but emotionally) that for a new comer to beat an established skater, it'll take a great deal of effort. Not that it's impossible (like Tara Lipinski and Sarah Hughes), but it needs an extra goodness so that the judges could not ignore.

    For the TES, it could be objective. "Could be" doesn't mean it will be. It still can be add or subtract with GOE's that involves with how a judge handles it. Sometimes, the jumps were down graded. Sometimes, the flaws were ignored. For the PCS, part of it measures emotion. If there is emotion, then there is no clear cut . There are still a significent portion collaborates with technics. That is partly why that high tech scores would come with high PCS. That's my understanding. Don't know if it's correct or not. I think in general, CoP highly emphasizes the technical skills, and the sport side of figure skating.

    In order to get higher total scores, one has to have higher technical marks. If Jeremy could have two quads and two 3axels clean in his LP, I 100% believe that he would be on top of Plushenko. But the reality is he has only one quad (if he could jump it cleanly) and he said he will put two 3axels in it. He could be very very competitive if he skates clean. Those are "if"s. If Lambiel skates clean, if Joubert skates clean ... So I don't know if all the top skaters skate clean, will the judges give the established skaters more GOEs and more PE, CH, and IN marks?
    Last edited by jennylovskt; 02-02-2010 at 09:46 PM.

  6. #51
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Jeremy isn't exactly a newcomer. He won the 2008-09 GP Final and was 4th at the GP Final this season. If he skates as well as he can, they will give him the scores he deserves.

  7. #52
    Go marry the quad if you love it so much DesertRoad's Avatar
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    Second what mskater93 said. Jeremy has had great success internationally, dominating the 2009 GP circuit. If he skates well, the judges probably won't lowball him... probably.

    I wish people would stop saying all Jeremy has to do is repeat his performance at this year's nationals. Trying to recapture that magical, mystical perfect skate at nationals didn't work out so well for Michelle Kwan, did it? And Jeremy's skates at nationals weren't perfect. He could clean up a lot of his jump landings, plus skate with a lot more speed and power.

    I'm still not on board the Jeremy love boat. His posture is a bit stooped over, and his movements are frequently gawky and awkward (gawkward?). There just isn't that sense of spatial awareness and grace that I like in my dancing.

  8. #53
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    Let's consider that Plushy and Jeremy skate very well in Vancouver.

    Under 6.0 we can give Plushy these marks:

    Technical ....... ave score 5.9

    Presentation ...ave score 5.8

    Those are very good marks.

    Now here is Jeremy's score:

    Technical..........ave score 5.8

    Presentation ....ave score 5.9

    Also very good marks. It appears to be a tie.

    But under the 6.0 system Jeremy would be the winner because 6.0 valued artisitry and presentation over technical skating.

    It doesn't feel the same under CoP. The premise of CoP was that the elements would be scored in a way to give everyone a fair chance and that jumps alone would not determine the winner. It feels to me like it is the exact opposite and the fact that Jeremy is better at everything but jumps still gives him little chance against Plushy or even Joubert.

    Under 6.0 Plush and Joubert would have more trouble and if they missed a single jump they would pay for it against a more artistic skater showing a clean program. (Yagudin wins in 2002)

    Again it feels like the opposite effect as CoP skaters can miss jumps, still be less artistic and still win. (Miki over Akiko at GPF)

    The CoP needs adjustment and will never feel right until the pcs are marked in a way that is more realistic towards the non-jumping elements. A quad does not mean you have better IN, SS, CH, TR or even PE. It only means you have a quad and you are entitled to the points for the quad but NOT a boost in your pcs.

    Yet we see this happen and for me it appears to be little more than a farce at times.

    Rachael may have landed 7 triples at Natls but her artistic presentation was sorely lacking. She was not able to interpret her music for a variety of reasons. Her skating, although technically strong was lacking in presentation.

    Think of Michelle and how she might have skated to the music in Rachael's LP. End of discussion
    Last edited by janetfan; 02-02-2010 at 02:47 PM.

  9. #54
    I love you, Jeremy! GiuliaPlum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    you have a quad and you are entitled to the points for the quad but NOT a boost in your pcs.
    Now,this should be the official motto of Vancouver 2010.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertRoad View Post
    I wish people would stop saying all Jeremy has to do is repeat his performance at this year's nationals. Trying to recapture that magical, mystical perfect skate at nationals didn't work out so well for Michelle Kwan, did it? And Jeremy's skates at nationals weren't perfect. He could clean up a lot of his jump landings, plus skate with a lot more speed and power.
    I'm still not on board the Jeremy love boat. His posture is a bit stooped over, and his movements are frequently gawky and awkward (gawkward?). There just isn't that sense of spatial awareness and grace that I like in my dancing.
    I have actually warmed up a great deal with Jeremy's skating from this season. I love his Nationals LP. Don't like much about his SP. And I love, love his National Gala program! I could see where and why he loses PCS - speed and power. That could boost at least his SS and PE in the PCS. He will have high TR any way. The CH and IN are up to the judges.

    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    The CoP needs adjustment and will never feel right until the pcs are marked in a way that is more realistic towards the non-jumping elements. A quad does not mean you have better IN, SS, CH, TR or even PE. It only means you have a quad and you are entitled to the points for the quad but NOT a boost in your pcs.
    I agree if Plushenko and Abbott skated the way they've skated so far this season, under 6.0 system, Abbott will win. But one thing to remember is that Plushenko is totally capable of high presentation skating. His skating now is designed to fit CoP system. He will never skate like this under 6.0 system.

    Having a quad in the program means you'll have higher SS in PCS besides higher TES. TR is in a different category. PE, IN, and CH are subjective and you can never argue with the judges one way or another. Those are where the judges could give cushions to the skaters they like. How to fix it? I think there is no way to fix it as long as there is "art" involved.

  11. #56
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    What Jeremy delivered at Nationals was sooooo fantastic. I too though am reluctant to get my hopes up about him, just seeing his track record. He can be very up and down at times and I agree that international judges may hammer him a little more about some of his jump landings and lack of speed. All the same, he shows true musicality and I love that. I don't see that in any of the other men; I feel some of Weir's artistry has gone downhill in recent years and Lysacek has always just been about the arm-flailing. Jeremy offers something really refreshing.
    I just hope he can hold it together in Vancouver and that judges cut him some slack on this things that aren't perfect because he is such a brilliant skater when he is on.

  12. #57
    Thank God for Stephane Lambiel and Matt Savoie! shine's Avatar
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    Jeremy Abbott lacks speed?

  13. #58
    Custom Title luvsasha's Avatar
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    ^^my thoughts exactly shine.
    Last night I actually dreamed about the Olympic mens SP: Jeremy was in like 8th place or something but his score was 84.80 so I was happy about that. Plushy was in 1st place with 91something, and Evan was in second really close to him. I think he was like 1.5 points behind- 89.9.

    I think I've been thinking too much about this.... *slinks away*

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Let's consider that Plushy and Jeremy skate very well in Vancouver.

    Under 6.0 we can give Plushy these marks:

    Technical ....... ave score 5.9

    Presentation ...ave score 5.8

    Those are very good marks.

    Now here is Jeremy's score:

    Technical..........ave score 5.8

    Presentation ....ave score 5.9

    Also very good marks. It appears to be a tie.

    But under the 6.0 system Jeremy would be the winner because 6.0 valued artisitry and presentation over technical skating.

    It doesn't feel the same under CoP. The premise of CoP was that the elements would be scored in a way to give everyone a fair chance and that jumps alone would not determine the winner. It feels to me like it is the exact opposite and the fact that Jeremy is better at everything but jumps still gives him little chance against Plushy or even Joubert.

    Under 6.0 Plush and Joubert would have more trouble and if they missed a single jump they would pay for it against a more artistic skater showing a clean program. (Yagudin wins in 2002)

    Again it feels like the opposite effect as CoP skaters can miss jumps, still be less artistic and still win. (Miki over Akiko at GPF)

    The CoP needs adjustment and will never feel right until the pcs are marked in a way that is more realistic towards the non-jumping elements. A quad does not mean you have better IN, SS, CH, TR or even PE. It only means you have a quad and you are entitled to the points for the quad but NOT a boost in your pcs.

    Yet we see this happen and for me it appears to be little more than a farce at times.

    Rachael may have landed 7 triples at Natls but her artistic presentation was sorely lacking. She was not able to interpret her music for a variety of reasons. Her skating, although technically strong was lacking in presentation.

    Think of Michelle and how she might have skated to the music in Rachael's LP. End of discussion
    That's true to a certain extent. But a 7 quad and one triple Joubert lost to a eight triple Buttle. Jumps didn't alone determine that winner. You make it sound like Flatt and Nagasu were close, but Flatt landed seven triples to Nagasu's three. Should exquisite artistry really make up for lacking three triples? You mention Yagudin vs Plushenko circa 2002, and that was a difference of one triple axel, correct?

    I'm not sure how Michelle is germane to this conversation. A while ago you told me that using Kim as a standard for COP wasn't fair simply because she was a huge exception in terms of technique and artistry. I'd argue that Kwan's also the exception, and comparing Flatt, who's been in the senior conversation for exactly two years, to Kwan, with her five worlds and nine Nationals isn't the fairest debate at your disposal.

    The boost in PCS for the quad annoys me, but since most people agree the quad is underscored as it is, I've come to not mind it as much. That said, if you have a quad, I'd assume your SS and PE skills are quite good, frankly (see Plushenko).

    COP favors technical skating, no one can deny that. And PCS are marked oddly enough to need a closer examination/explanation.

  15. #60
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    The Professional Skaters Association chose Jeremy's "A Day In The Life" as the best performance by a male skater at US Natls..
    Gosh, was it really better than his LP?

    Best Male Performance -- Jeremy Abbott - Senior Men's Short Program
    Coached by Yuka Sato and Jason Dungjen
    Choreography by Shae-Lynn Bourne
    Music: The Beatles' "A Day in the Life" performed by Jeff Beck
    Last edited by janetfan; 02-03-2010 at 10:09 AM.

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