Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 128

Thread: Jeremy Abbott

  1. #61
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,560
    Quote Originally Posted by dannyascii View Post
    I feel some of Weir's artistry has gone downhill in recent years and Lysacek has always just been about the arm-flailing. Jeremy offers something really refreshing.
    I feel this way too. Some of Johnny's movements appeared in almost all his programs and I could remember where they came from. I thought, "Oh, that again? Can't you invent something else?" Any good movements, if you use them too often and too much, they'll become annoying. That's why that most people hate biellmann spin in ladies. I actually think the spin is very, very beautiful. But it's annoying to see that.

    Evan, what can I say? A hopeless case. But at least I feel that I should support him on the ground that so many wanted to push him to the other side. He is a great athlete! Just don't like his style, that's all.

    Jeremy is amazing! I have said it before and I'll say it again that a true artistic skater who can actually jump! That is amazing. Of course, he is not the first and only skater to do it. Lambiel and Takahashi can do it too.

    I hope that Jeremy won't be too hyper with his wins so far and really come down and focus and win something bigger. Good luck, Jeremy!
    Last edited by jennylovskt; 02-03-2010 at 01:26 PM.

  2. #62
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    LA
    Posts
    4,989
    Jeremy, for me rivals Lambiel in artistry. Watching him is a treat.

    I agree the Weir seems to be doing the same moves over and over, all his footwork has looked the same. His SP is original, but only after the jumps end. I don't like it, acting like a Las Vegas sideshow act is not my definition of artistry, but granted it is something new from him.

    Evan tries, but he is not an "artistic" skater and never will be. I think this year his programs package him very well and I feel that especially in his SP he really tries to get into a charachter.

  3. #63
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,560
    And I have to add that I really love Jeremy's costume choices this season. Much better than the last season. I love his National Gala's costume! He looks very handsome in it! I guess it's the influence of Yuka Sato.

  4. #64
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,335
    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Let's consider that Plushy and Jeremy skate very well in Vancouver.

    Under 6.0 we can give Plushy these marks:

    Technical ....... ave score 5.9

    Presentation ...ave score 5.8

    Those are very good marks.

    Now here is Jeremy's score:

    Technical..........ave score 5.8

    Presentation ....ave score 5.9

    Also very good marks. It appears to be a tie.

    But under the 6.0 system Jeremy would be the winner because 6.0 valued artisitry and presentation over technical skating.
    I have an off topic question about skating history. Am I remembering this right, or am I just making this up? I believe that at one time in the 6.0 system the tie-breaker for men was the technical mark in both short and long programs, while the tie-breaker for ladies was the artistic mark.

    Then they changed it to be the technical mark in the short program and the artistic mark in ther long, for both men and women.

    Is this true?
    Last edited by Mathman; 02-03-2010 at 03:52 PM.

  5. #65
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    6,889
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I have an off topic question about skating history. Am I remembering this right, or am I just making this up? I believe that at one time in the 6.0 system the tie-breaker for men was the technical mark in both short and long programs, while the tie-breaker for ladies was the artidstic mark.

    Then they changed it to be the technical mark in the short program and the artistic mark in ther long, for both men and women.

    Is this true?
    I have no idea if that is true or when the tie break rules were changed/ implemented. It makes sense for the "free skate" to have the presentation marks as a tiebreaker and for the "technical program" to use the technical marks.

    What are the tie break rules for CoP? We saw Evan and Johnny tie in '08 and how was it decided? Was the winner of the LP awarded the victory? What would be the next tie breaker - the winner of the SP? What if there was a tie in both programs? Would bribes to the tech panel determine the winner

  6. #66
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    3,894
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I have an off topic question about skating history. Am I remembering this right, or am I just making this up? I believe that at one time in the 6.0 system the tie-breaker for men was the technical mark in both short and long programs, while the tie-breaker for ladies was the artidstic mark.
    I think it was always the technical mark for both disciplines, until they changed it. I don't think there was ever a gender distinction.

    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan
    What are the tie break rules for CoP? We saw Evan and Johnny tie in '08 and how was it decided? Was the winner of the LP awarded the victory? What would be the next tie breaker - the winner of the SP? What if there was a tie in both programs? Would bribes to the tech panel determine the winner
    See page 24:
    http://isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/file...-0-file,00.pdf

    If there were a tie in both programs, then they would remain tied.

    Note that there are tiebreakers within each program, so even if the skaters had the same total score in each program, there might still be a winner of each program.

  7. #67
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    6,889
    Quote Originally Posted by Kunstrijdster View Post
    The Battle of the Brians free skate was definitely decided on the tech mark as a tiebreaker, one judge gave Boitano 5.9/5.8 and Orser 5.8./.5.9. They were tied for 1st but the tech mark broke the tie.
    I never knew that ended in a tie? My recollection of 6.0 tie breakers was that the artisitic marks trumped the technical marks. I could be wrong and don't remember many ties. A close decision was the one between Oksana and Nancy back in '94. But I don't recall that as a tie, just very close scoring with the victory going to Oksana.

  8. #68
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    3,894
    There were many levels of tiebreakers. The 5.8/5.9 vs. 5.9/5.8 first or second mark tiebreaker for the marks a single judge was only the first level.

    That does not mean that the skaters were ever tied, just that the judge gave them the same total of the two marks for that program.

    That's the tiebreaker that changed from first mark to second mark in the free program after 1988. There were a variety of other changes over the years.

    The whole point of tiebreakers is that the skaters are not really "tied" until they all run out and there's no further way to break a tie.

  9. #69
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,335
    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    A close decision was the one between Oksana and Nancy back in '94. But I don't recall that as a tie, just very close scoring with the victory going to Oksana.
    As I recall, the individual judges were not allowed to give two skaters the exact same marks. I think that was why there was so much jockeyng around and "leaving room" so that a judge could insert a later skater in between two closely matched earlier skaters if need be.

    In the case of the 1884 Olympics, the judges split right down cold war lines, with Ukraine, Poland, Czech Republik, and China giving first place ordinals to Oksana, and USA, Canada, Great Britain and Japan going for Nancy.

    The German judge, Jan Hoffmann (who had represented East Germany in four different Olymoics and won the silver medal in 1980) gave Nancy 5.8, 5.8 and Oksana 5.7, 5.9. This gave Oksana her fifth 1st-place ordinal. Under the "majority of ordinals" method that was in use at the time (in 1998 it was changed to OBO), that was that. Oksana had the majority of first place ordinals, she won the free skate and the gold medal.

    Oksana's ordinals were 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3. (Lu Chen was placed ahead of Oksana in second by two judges).

    Nancy's were 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2.

    Hoffmann was known as an "artistry" judge rather than a "technical" judge. Besides favoring Oksana over Nancy, he also gave Michelle Kwan one of her three first place ordinals against Tara in 1998.
    Last edited by Mathman; 02-03-2010 at 09:10 PM.

  10. #70
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hollywood, CA
    Posts
    4,011
    Hoffmann was wrong in both cases.

  11. #71
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    3,894
    Not this has anything to do with Jeremy Abbott any more...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    As I recall, the individual judges were not allowed to give two skaters the exact same marks. I think that was why there was so much jockeyng around and "leaving room" so that a judge could insert a later skater in between two closely matched earlier skaters if need be.
    That's what they were supposed to do, but occasionally in large fields they did inadvertently give two skaters the same marks and therefore the same ordinals.

    For example, at Lillehammer, the Czech judge gave both Tonya Harding and Krisztina Czako 5.2/5.3 in the short program, and therefore they both got seventh-place ordinals from that judge.

    http://winter-olympic-memories.com/h...igure_w_ex.htm

    There were a few other examples involving different judges and different skaters in that event. But none of those pairs of skaters ended up tied in the standings, only on one judge's card.
    Last edited by Mathman; 02-04-2010 at 09:52 AM.

  12. #72
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    I do not think there are enough points in the CoP's PC scores to overcome an over-the-top Tech score which also influences the PC scores. We only saw one tie at US Nats under CoP. It'll be 20 years before we see another.

  13. #73
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    289
    I don't know why everyone is so down on Evan. His scores this season are phenomenal and totally in the league with any of the top scorers like Lambiel and Plush. Check out this list that someone made:


    1 255.39 Evgeni PLUSHENKO RUS European Championships 2010 [#38]
    2 249.45 Evan LYSACEK USA ISU GP Final 2009/2010 [#2]
    3 243.36 Nobunari ODA JPN ISU GP Final 2009/2010 [#14]
    4 238.54 Stephane LAMBIEL SUI European Championships 2010 [#17]
    http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=71244

    Only 6 pts from the lead in a performance (GPF) that had mistakes! Jeremy is very good skater, too.
    Last edited by Figure88; 02-04-2010 at 01:36 PM.

  14. #74
    Vancouver 2010, 247.23, Bronze
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    2,989
    Quote Originally Posted by Figure88 View Post
    I don't know why everyone is so down on Evan. His scores are phenomenal and totally in the league with any of the top scorers like Lambiel and Plush.
    Prob b/c there's something about his skating/ personality that doesn't attract tons of fans. To me, he is a phenomenal example of how someone with a zero natural talent but with very strong work ethics can achieve anything in life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Figure88 View Post
    Jeremy is very good skater, too.
    Is he? You are too generous in your assessment.

    Also, can we plz keep those boring ladiezzzz discussions out of this thread? There's 1000s threads for that already. I can't put everybody on my ignore list (ppl like mods), and I wouldn't want to do that.

  15. #75
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    5,579
    People just we tend to remember the last skate and in the last skate Jeremy was awesome and won over Evan .
    Dont compare scores from different competitions, gpf had only 6 skaters and the only one with quad in sp and lp was last. Marks were inflated there as they were in Euros also. No conclusions.

    Lol the Isu ranking is hilarious!

Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •