Jeremy Abbott
- Thread starter janetfan
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No, he was MAJORLY gifted in PCS in the GPF LP. Abbott should have clearly won the LP. Evan's past reputation as the reigning World Champ and mistakes from Takahashi in the LP and from Abbott in the SP saved the day for Lysacek, not his LP skate, which was not the best of the night. A clean Daisuke, Jeremy, Evgeni, Stephane, Brian, Nobunari, and Patrick all can beat a clean Evan.
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- Oct 20, 2006
If you ask me, I would say, "Yes, Jeremy and Evan can, but Johnny can't." That's what I think as objectively as possible, not my choice. If Jeremy skated like he has skated at the Nationals, unless there are three of these skaters, Plushenko, Lambiel, Joubert, and Takahashi, skated up to their own potential, the judges would have no choice but put Jeremy on the podium. Evan has less chance. Two years ago, his quad jumps had 50/50 chance of landing clean, now I guess he has only 30(landing)/70(failing). If he doesn't plan a quad, his chance of getting on the podium would be decidedly low. But at the Olympics, there are much greater possibility of having a splatfest. So Evan might become lucky once again. Johnny is consuming what he has already got all these years, technically and artistically. The more he consumes, the less he has. He will be lucky if he stays in the top 8.
now where is this "you are beating a dead horse" emoticon that you had once used and I had fallen off my chair from laughing?
Seniorita, this thread was specially dedicated to this purpose by Janetfan. He said it himself.
So people have the right to do so in here.
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Am I delusional? I firmly believe that Jeremy's LP at Nationals was the best men's LP performance this season. Does anyone honestly think that any other performance by any other man was better this season?
I know things in Vancouver will change, but given that LP, Jeremy has GOT to be one of the few OGM contenders. Disagree?
I know things in Vancouver will change, but given that LP, Jeremy has GOT to be one of the few OGM contenders. Disagree?
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- Oct 31, 2005
Unless Plushenko crumbles somehow, which I don't see happening, he's got an air-tight lock on OGM. I don't see Abbott or anybody else contending. But based on international results, it wouldn't be Abbott who's first in line even if Plushenko falls. I'd say Oda, Lambiel and Lysacek are more likely to step in. I think the pressure to recreate this supposedly perfect Nationals skate will get to Abbott. Think Kwan 1998.
If that's so then what's the point in competing?
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Exactly. Who expected Plushenko to fall on a quad (usually rock-solid) in SLC?
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- Oct 31, 2005
Aah, but that was under 6.0. You can splat on a jump in COP and still get enough points to win. For example, Plushenko scored the highest total score this season at the European Championships despite having some botched elements. Plushenko has the ability to do 3 quads and 3 triple axels in the entire competition. He can afford a few falls.
Well, there are other placements besides first, ya know. And it's an honor just to represent your country at the Olympics. And there is a tiny chance Plushenko will make enough mistakes to let someone overtake him.
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I take it that you would have Abbott in 5th or 6th place depending on how Plush's falter affects his placement, and of course, there is always Joubert.
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Depends on how Jeremy skates. And I was wrong about Jeremy's international results this season, I forgot his win at Skate Canada. So he's had an up and down season with as many ups and downs. If he has another up at the Olympics, I don't see why he wouldn't contend for gold (if Plushy melts down), or at least the podium.
Ok, I don't want to go into GPF but I recall Oda having made more visible mistakes than Evan in his short and long. Evan had no noticeable mistakes in the short, but he had 1 in the long. I think Oda had 1 mistake in the short and 2 or more mistakes (he popped his jump or something). Hence, why Evan led over Oda.
BTW, I'm not a diehard Evan. I just wondered why he's so hated among skating fans. Probably outside of skating forums, he is at least respected. It isn't as if his competitors are perfect as well (I can probably go further into this but I don't want to start a fan war).
Well, that's the problem, isn't it? All of the skaters (except for one one) you listed have at least bombed at least one skate this season. Evan has been the most consistent and that allows him to win. You have to give him a nod to where it's at least deserved.
I think Lambiel is the best skater of the bunch, but he has problems with landing clean jumps (maybe because of injury, who knows?). Evan isn't the most overly artistic but it's sufficient to win awards and I think he blends athleticism and artistry quite well. Every skater you listed has some kind of weakness, not only Evan.
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Whenever someone gets really high PCS without earning them (according to a vituperative subset of this group), we get angry. See Chan at WTT 09 or 4CC or SC. See Plushenko. See Joubert at NHK.
Lysacek's PCS at the GPF are second only to Lambiel at Europeans, and most people here believe that in terms of PCS, Lambiel's in another league entirely (things like skating skills, choreography, and Interpretation)
I agree that Lambiel's PCS should be on a different level to other skaters, but I think also that maybe judges are raising the PCS of other skaters to place on an equal footing. Otherwise, you have skaters winning on PCS scores and that would be inviting a lot of controversy. Judges probably see landing clean jumps as the deciding factor to medalling.
Also, it's possible that Lambiel's PCS would be even higher if he landed his jumps cleanly.
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- Jul 11, 2003
and you saw the landings on all his jumps first hand, no?
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- Oct 20, 2006
I agree that his LP performance at the Nationals has stood out the crowd. But even with Jeremy's best skating ever in his skating career, I still think that his speed and power were not up to Plushenko and Joubert's level (well, to be precise, Plushenko has power, Joubert has power and speed). And I think the judges look for those qualities in men's skating. So he might not get the same high LP scores with the exact same performance in international competition. It could though definitely put him into the mix with the best.
However, have you ever seen any back to back competitions with equal fire, or the later competition exceding a skater's best ever skating? (Let's just hope that I am wrong here.)
I could see Jeremy on the podium, but I don't see him win OGM. If he wins the OGM, it must be that he has skated his skate of the life time, and with the help of other skaters. That could definitely be called "the pig is flying".
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Actually, Plushenko's mistake in Salt Lake would have been MORE costly under CoP. He underrotated the Quad in additional to falling on it (worth 0 points) and didn't add a combo to his program, so he would have been pretty far behind Timothy Goebel after the SP and probably only ended up with a Bronze medal instead of a Silver medal in the end.
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- Jul 27, 2003
Frankly, I'm kinda sick of this arguement. Yes, Joubert has very good speed and is powerful, but Plushenko (???) as of late is NOT fast. It's apparent on TV that he strokes strokes strokes between the jumps and his skating looks laboured, so does his footwork. He might have been better 4 years ago, but so far he's not THAT impressive. Considering the amount of in betweens that Jeremy does besides stroking, his speed is WAY decent.
Comments that hint at Jeremy's skating skills not being up to par with the likes of Joubert or Plushenko really tick me, because that's just not true.
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- Jul 27, 2003
Not when your jumps are pretty much the only point getter that you can rely on.
Lambiel also lost less than 4 points to him in the LP by making way more mistakes than Plushenko did.
