How difficult is it do new spins?

**apache88** · 10-29-2003, 10:47 AM

Not only are Sasha's spins awesome, they are very innovative. Granted I have watched only 3 of her programs, but I definitely can't be wrong to say Sasha is a master of spins.

So, here's my question. How difficult is it for skaters to come up with new spins in their programs. I have watched, I guess, 60+ of Michelle's programs. I wonder why she's been doing the same spins year-in year-out. I thought her spins in Nationals Junior were interesting though not masterfully executed. I mean whatever Michelle does, I'd always support her, but I just can't help wondering why she has not tried new spins at all? Those spins in Tosca were like those in Aranjuez, and all those programs in previous seasons.

**mike79** · 10-29-2003, 12:18 PM

I don't think that Sasha is inventing new spins. She does do a forward scratch spin that is rarely used, and is quite difficult to perform.

She is definitely using very interesting arm variations in her LP, and she is an amazing spinner. Her leg position while performing camel spins is one of the best I've seen.

Michelle is a very good spinner. Remember a few years ago she used to spin in both directions. Her layback has gotten much better since she was younger as well. While she may not be the best spinner around, she is certainly not the worst. Her positions are superb, just look at how straight her back is during a sit spin. The only thing that Michelle could improve in this area is the speed of her spins, although that has been getting better through the years.

**icenut84** · 10-29-2003, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by mike79
I don't think that Sasha is inventing new spins. She does do a forward scratch spin that is rarely used, and is quite difficult to perform.

Actually, in context to the other spins, a forward scratch spin is not that hard to perform. It's one of the spins someone learns at roughly the same time as they learn a sit spin or a camel spin, I think. A back scratch spin is more difficult, as backspins are harder, but when you get to Sasha's level neither forward or backspins are "difficult" to perform, as such, as they have to perform both with different positions and will have done for many years. A forward scratch spin isn't used that often because a scratch spin is usually put in a combination spin, and if it is, it's usually a back scratch spin that is performed because it's a fast spin and a good one to end the combination with.

Sasha is definitely a good spinner though.

**Joesitz** · 10-29-2003, 09:30 PM

I think once a skater masters one spin, the others fall into place eventually. I also think all the variations of spins have been performed, and usually it is just arm placing or head turning. Of course spins need continual practice to keep up form and speed.

Joe

**Ladskater** · 10-29-2003, 10:18 PM

apache88:

All spins are based on the forward scratch spin which is really not that difficult to master (after one does a few thousand of course!). Sasha's was great because it was well centred - a must for a great spin - and she added variety to it by inventing a new arm variation.

Unless one comes up with a variation - such as Sasha did - spins are pretty much the same. It's like trying to reinvent the wheel. Pair skaters sometimes come up with a new variation.

I guess in answer to your question "how difficult it is to do new spins" would be the same answer as to how difficult is it to do new jumps. It's a challenge!

**RealtorGal** · 10-29-2003, 11:08 PM

Ask Lucinda Ruh!

**apache88** · 10-31-2003, 08:35 AM

Ladskater:
All spins are based on the forward scratch spin which is really not that difficult to master (after one does a few thousand of course!). Sasha's was great because it was well centred - a must for a great spin - and she added variety to it by inventing a new arm variation.

Unless one comes up with a variation - such as Sasha did - spins are pretty much the same. It's like trying to reinvent the wheel. Pair skaters sometimes come up with a new variation.

I guess in answer to your question "how difficult it is to do new spins" would be the same answer as to how difficult is it to do new jumps. It's a challenge!

Regarding the forward scratch spin, I kept hearing Dick say how difficult it was. Why do some of you say it isn't as difficult as it is made out to be?

Ok, now I understand my own question "doing new spins". What I really meant to ask was "doing new variations of spins". So, why doesn't Michelle do new variations of spins? I almost never watch other skaters, is it normal for skaters to do the same variations every season and is Sasha the only one of the few who don't?

**Bynx** · 10-31-2003, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by mike79

Michelle is a very good spinner. Remember a few years ago she used to spin in both directions. Her layback has gotten much better since she was younger as well. While she may not be the best spinner around, she is certainly not the worst. Her positions are superb, just look at how straight her back is during a sit spin. The only thing that Michelle could improve in this area is the speed of her spins, although that has been getting better through the years.

True!
I've not seen any of the other ladies spin in both directions.
Come to think of it, I don't remember any men as of late doing it either. Her layback has definitely gotten much better. Michelle has said that when she started she was one of the least flexible skaters she had seen.

Her positions are wonderful and are always very well centered!

**blurrysarah** · 10-31-2003, 11:13 AM

Forward scratch spins are one of the first spins a skater learns. They sure aren't easy for a beginner to master - takes a few years. But for someone of elite level, well they are able to perform them easy as pie. Which is probably why you don't see them used very often in elite programs, maybe they view them as "babyish" skating skills (?) or boring, god knows why. But as you have learned, take a basic scratch spin, put a new arm position on it and it seems like something completely amazing and new. I thought it was great to see a new position in a spin for once, instead of the cookie cutter camel/sit/layback.

**icenut84** · 10-31-2003, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by blurrysarah
But as you have learned, take a basic scratch spin, put a new arm position on it and it seems like something completely amazing and new. I thought it was great to see a new position in a spin for once, instead of the cookie cutter camel/sit/layback.

Are you on about Sasha's new LP? What was her arm variation? I'll be interested to see that (come Worlds, which'll probably be the first chance I get).