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Articles and Media Reports

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Here's an article on the US men and how they are much more of a presence internationally than the American ladies are right now. Some quotes:

Jeremy Abbott:
Our depth is incredible. … Down to eighth place at nationals could possibly be on the (Olympic) team.
I'm trying to think who other than Abbott/Lysacek/Weir this refers to... I guess Rippon, Carriere, Mroz and Bradley, which means I'm missing someone.

Johnny Weir:
The thing that I’m hoping to see come out of the Americans’ success is that we get … the respect of a real athlete and we aren’t thought of as just the boys who are doing the girls’ sport... I want people to see how difficult what we do is and have respect for the titles we bring home to our country.
I want people to be aware of how hard I work... I don’t have a team around me and I don’t have pads all over my body. I’m doing this by myself, on my own. And I want people to see how difficult that really is

Evan Lysacek:
It’s important that I don’t just promote myself but promote the entire men’s team
We have a breed of male skaters in this country that is so strong in the depth of technique, artistic interpretation (and) just overall strength… The men’s field in the United States right now is without a doubt the strongest it has ever been.
Emphasis mine, because I don't think that's true for all the US men. ;)
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Nice fluff article about college roommates Charlie White, Trevor Young (Best and Young), Evan Bates (Samuelson and Bates) and Alex Shibutani (Shibutani and Shibutani) -- all students at the University of Michigan. (Go Blue!)

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=20101140478
Thanks MM! I normally don't read Twitter but the four of them tend to have some pretty funny stuff about each other, so I'm not surprised that came across in the article, too.

It's nice to see ice dancers get some attention from the media, esp. ones other than the top two teams (and Trevor Young, too). The Free Press has pretty good skating coverage, doesn't it?
 
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Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Men's SP coverage:

Christine Brennan for USA Today - Lysacek wuzrobbed! There are some very entertaining statements. I'm pretty sure she's wrong about Lysacek's PCS being unusually low.**

Philip Hersh is not in a snarky mood, and he really liked Jeremy Abbott's program. As well he should!

** ETA: of course she was wrong! Evan Lysacek scored 39.46 on PCS yesterday. Although the trauma of not winning CoC may have led to short term memory loss, one would think he would maybe remember how he did at 2009 worlds? I have it - he meant it was the lowest he'd gotten at Nats in two years... nope, not that either.
 
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museksk8r

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
Men's SP coverage:

Christine Brennan for USA Today - Lysacek wuzrobbed! There are some very entertaining statements. I'm pretty sure she's wrong about Lysacek's PCS being unusually low.

Brennan izanidiot! Maybe she should drop journalism and become a comedian. Lysacek's sluggishness and nervousness was very apparent to me in the SP. Any objective, unbiased viewer should have been able to note the same.

"You give the lowest marks of the year to your world champion who is the best hope to win the gold medal from the United States?" asked an incredulous Frank Carroll, Lysacek's coach. "Strange."

Frank is no better.:disagree:

"I was expecting 9's here," Lysacek said.

Is he kidding? With the performance he gave in the SP?:rofl: You have to skate like you deserve 9's in PCS; you shouldn't just be entitled to them because of your past successes. :sheesh:

"What they're doing with Chan, they're pushing him with the highest possible score," Carroll said. "In the United States, we are honest to our own detriment sometimes."

Frank, please stop it! Be honest with yourself . . . your skater was not "all that" last night and only in both of your wildest dreams is Lysacek anywhere on par with Chan's basic skating skills.
 
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Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Frank is Frank... he was that way when he coached Michelle, too. How DARE we not all worship his skater.

too bad he was never that way with Timothy Goebel... he could have used the support.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
A few more:

NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/17/sports/olympics/17skating.html
USA Today: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olym...g/2010-01-16-us-championship-mens-short_N.htm
...Weir vamped as only he can. As he neared the boards, he threw back his head in dramatic fashion and then gave a few middle-aged ladies in the front row a smoldering look. "It's sexy, Latin music," he explained.
(Also catch the bit about Galina at the end.)
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-spw-skating16-2010jan16,0,672519.story
Required Elements blog: http://www.requiredelements.com/2010/1/16/1254269/u-s-nationals-coverage-mens-short
Seattle Times (major Lysacek fan): http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/ronjudd/2010808273_judd16.html
Spokesman-Review (Spokane?) http://www.passporttogold2010.com/stories/2010/jan/16/nice-statement/
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
All of post #8

I totally agree. I don't profess to be skating expert, but I really wasn't that impressed by his program. I thought Evan was actually a tad bit more timid than usual. I felt he didn't really attack his jumps. And yes, his spins and footwork were great (he did get level 4s on them), but I still think that being several points below his ISU PB is reasonable given the fact that he did make a mistake on that triple axel (vs. a pretty flawless program at GPF).

I came home too late from work to see Johnny's or Jeremy's program so I can't compare it against that, but I can tell you that I've seen Evan do better.

So is Carroll and company saying that Nationals' scores should be inflated? Does it really send a message internationally that U.S. judges score fairly and not as high as the Canadians and the Russians? Will PChiddy will get the scores to win OIympic gold because his home country gave him a 90 for a program with TWO mistakes? Give me a break.
 
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jcoates

Medalist
Joined
Mar 3, 2006
Have not read Brennan yet but as an Evan fan (I like Abbott too and respect Weir) I felt the scores were fine. I need to take a painkiller before I do read her and do some deep breathing simply because the woman is insipid and had done more to harm my two favorite sports (skating and tennis) than any other journalist. She's a hack who lives to create drama.

That being said, what Frank is pointing out, fairly or not, is that the other federations understand the importance of sending a strong and clear message heading into Olympics. The man has been coaching for over 40 years, he has some experience from which to speak.

It's rare that one of the runnersup at any nationals win the OGM. That's why so many top skaters in other countries sit out their own if not up to snuff in an Olympic year. Arakawa was an exception, as were Hughes and Lipinski. Fortunately for Evan, what he has in common with them is that they were each part of very deep field from their countries in those years and the judges acknowledged that. While I hope that is the case this year for skaters from our federation (and Japan for that matter), that does not always happen though.

In Chan's case, I saw his SP. If he had skated it that way in our nationals, he would have been below 80 easily. He botched his 3F/3T with a hand down on the flip and had to add a 2T to to his lutz to get in a combo. Compared to our top three and what they did, he was not up to par. Yet the Canadian panel gave him a 90! In doing so, they are attempting several things. Obviously guaranteeing sending their best hope (based on past performance) to Vancouver and giving him some confidence. (Some posters may not like Evan for whatever reason, but over the last four years, he has been the most consistent performer among US men.) You don't want your best skaters to have doubts in the final weeks of training unless absolutely necessary. They also want to send a message to international judges if possible to remember their skaters and last they want to build buzz with the public. Look at Plushenko and his super inflated 100.

US skating rarely does this. Of course national marks are no guarantee of international ones. Everyone knows that. But they can be a "Hey look at me!!!" symbol to maintain attetion in a crowded field. Remeber there will be at least 8 to 10 men in Vancouver with real to outside podium chances. That's a lot of skaters to keep track of.

The same is happening in Canada in dance with V/M. Do they deserve high marks? Of course. But a 70 for an OD in a comparatively weak field spells one thing, boosting. More than any skating medal Canada wants the gold in ice dance and they are being quite clear in their message about it. I bet every score they get for each program will be significantly higher than those they got on the GP. They want to remind people that their team is far better than those who have competed in their own nationals up to now and arguably the Americans too. Will the same happen next weekend with our dance teams? Who knows.

As far as the PCS, it's possible that a US panel liked Jeremy's Beatles program last night better than the internationsl judges have with Evan's classical SP. There is sometimes a disconnect between how a skater's national judges view him and how international ones do. Russian judges always prefered Plushenko over Yagudin, for example.

One last thought... listen to some Canadian commentary on V/M in a youtube video some time. They are constantly talking them up (as they should), trying to draw in more viewers and fans. I worry that the USFSA has been applying the usual PR method to our dance teams that they usually used for any of our bountiful list of past single champions. We had so many for so long that there really was no need to talk them up (unless they were superstars like Kwan) because the fans were already there and if the champion of the moment failed to meet expectations, there was always someone else waiting in the wings. Well, that has never been the case in dance until recently and may not be again in the future. We should be seizing this moment and talking about it as much as possible. The Canadians understand this since their dry spells in all disciplines have usually been longer. They have worked long and hard to build up their federation to the current strength it is and don't want to lose out on any opportunities. USFSA should be doing more of the same.
 

cloudkicker09

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 30, 2006
Frank is Frank... he was that way when he coached Michelle, too. How DARE we not all worship his skater.

too bad he was never that way with Timothy Goebel... he could have used the support.

I AGREE 100%, back in the day Tim could have really used his help and support.

Also Evan wasn't robbed, he should have been in third BEHIND Johnny, he was better.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Have not read Brennan yet but as an Evan fan (I like Abbott too and respect Weir) I felt the scores were fine. I need to take a painkiller before I do read her and do some deep breathing simply because the woman is insipid and had done more to harm my two favorite sports (skating and tennis) than any other journalist. She's a hack who lives to create drama.

That being said, what Frank is pointing out, fairly or not, is that the other federations understand the importance of sending a strong and clear message heading into Olympics. The man has been coaching for over 40 years, he has some experience from which to speak.

It's rare that one of the runnersup at any nationals win the OGM. That's why so many top skaters in other countries sit out their own if not up to snuff in an Olympic year. Arakawa was an exception, as were Hughes and Lipinski. Fortunately for Evan, what he has in common with them is that they were each part of very deep field from their countries in those years and the judges acknowledged that. While I hope that is the case this year for skaters from our federation (and Japan for that matter), that does not always happen though.

In Chan's case, I saw his SP. If he had skated it that way in our nationals, he would have been below 80 easily. He botched his 3F/3T with a hand down on the flip and had to add a 2T to to his lutz to get in a combo. Compared to our top three and what they did, he was not up to par. Yet the Canadian panel gave him a 90! In doing so, they are attempting several things. Obviously guaranteeing sending their best hope (based on past performance) to Vancouver and giving him some confidence. (Some posters may not like Evan for whatever reason, but over the last four years, he has been the most consistent performer among US men.) You don't want your best skaters to have doubts in the final weeks of training unless absolutely necessary. They also want to send a message to international judges if possible to remember their skaters and last they want to build buzz with the public. Look at Plushenko and his super inflated 100.

US skating rarely does this. Of course national marks are no guarantee of international ones. Everyone knows that. But they can be a "Hey look at me!!!" symbol to maintain attetion in a crowded field. Remeber there will be at least 8 to 10 men in Vancouver with real to outside podium chances. That's a lot of skaters to keep track of.

The same is happening in Canada in dance with V/M. Do they deserve high marks? Of course. But a 70 for an OD in a comparatively weak field spells one thing, boosting. More than any skating medal Canada wants the gold in ice dance and they are being quite clear in their message about it. I bet every score they get for each program will be significantly higher than those they got on the GP. They want to remind people that their team is far better than those who have competed in their own nationals up to now and arguably the Americans too. Will the same happen next weekend with our dance teams? Who knows.

As far as the PCS, it's possible that a US panel liked Jeremy's Beatles program last night better than the internationsl judges have with Evan's classical SP. There is sometimes a disconnect between how a skater's national judges view him and how international ones do. Russian judges always prefered Plushenko over Yagudin, for example.

Nice post. And yes, I see credence in all the points you made above. I do understand the logic of a federation sending a message that your best people are doing well. But surely the ISU judges watch these programs on YouTube or otherwise? Or they at least look at the protocol sheets to know how these skaters are doing. But then again it was the PCS scores that Evan and Carrol were making a fuss about. It goes to show, that yet again, PCS tells the tale no matter how strong your technical content is.

I guess though with all those skaters to track, maybe national score inflation is a necessary evil. But it doesn't mean I like it. :scowl:

The commentators during the SP did point out that they believe that even if Evan ended up in second or third that he would like be able to get the OGM anyway, just like getting the Worlds title despite a third place finish in Nationals.

One story I would like someone to cover beyond all this top three stuff is a look at the up-and-comers. I was really impressed by Armin and Adam and I never heard of this Richard guy and he's in the top 10! I like to hear more about their stories.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Keegan's a little lower than 10th, but he's also a rising star... I've found articles on him lol
 

Medusa

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 6, 2007
This "I deserve this and this *whiiiiiine* The judges are so stuuupied *waiiiiiil* I am the best!! I deserve the following PCS, GOE, levels *weeeeeeep*" is the worst, it just makes me sick, we had it from Chan, we now have it from Lysacek, or from Lambiel 2 years ago. But all that whining about the "Quad should be worth more" or "Judging system is sooo stupid" from Joubert, Weir & Co isn't that much better. Just shut the heck up!

You know what? I am starting to root for the Japanese trio to sweep Vancouver, at least they don't whine about their scores, the judges or the judging system endlessly - well, or at all.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Keegan's a little lower than 10th, but he's also a rising star... I've found articles on him lol

I guess I should clarify. I'm sure there are articles out there. But I guess I mean something more in depth. I mean instead of over analyzing the "stars."

There was a piece in the Seattle Times a few weeks ago about how Seattle folks won't be able to get Canadian Olympic TV coverage this year because CTV (who won the rights there) doesn't have any U.S. satellite relationships. The article pointed out that CBC, which previously had the Olympics and gave access to the U.S. via satellite, was really good about giving coverage to all the different countries and players rather then focus on fluff pieces and personalities, which will be more NBC thing.

But thankfully we have things like Twitter, Ice Network and other media that allows fans to get to know the skaters themselves.
 

jcoates

Medalist
Joined
Mar 3, 2006
Thanks for the response earlier. Coverage of skaters like Keegan is also part of the PR point I was trying to make. Skating is increasingly a small fish in the big (and getting bigger) pond of sports, especially in the US. It really has to fight for position and notice any way it can. Listening to many of the teleconferences with the top contenders last week, you could almost tell which of the reporter were ones who cover skating as a sport and understand the technical details, versus the one who cover it as a curiosity among all their other assignments, or worse as piece of fluff entertainment. If the press were to take the time to notice that depth among US men has gotten better and was on display last night, skaters like Keegan and Armin and Dornbush might get a boost in being introduced early to the public. That's always a nice set up for the next cycle

Those who were skating fans almost 20 years ago knew who Kwan was back in late 92 or early 93 before she won her first national medal. Same with Lipinski. V/M were being talked up before they became standouts. Far too often US media takes on a show me first mentality rather than taking to time to invest in scouting new talent in advance, at least in sports other than the big three.

Thanks to things like IceNetwork more of us get to see the young juniors and seniors who don't make TV while they are still developing. It's so useful. Hopefully, Keegan will make the TV broadcast tomorrow and does not get preempted by fluff. I think NBC is planning to show the final two groups. I missed the first 30 min of UniSports last night.. Did they show Keegan?
 
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