Senior Pairs Long Program | Page 11 | Golden Skate

Senior Pairs Long Program

Apollo13

Spectator
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
I presume you think E/L will be on the podium at the Olys? or are you happy they got a free trip to Vancouver as a reward for their stunning :confused: performance at Nats? They did beat veterans I/B by less than 1/2 pt. :rolleye: so they must be the stronger team.

We should come back to this at the Olys and see how E/L do. I am not against them. Just skeptical.

If you want precedence, flash back to 2006 St Louis Nationals.

Hinzmann/Parchem, despite flawed performances, outpointed Orscher/Lucash who were the reigning National Champions from Portland. Hinzmann/Parchem were third in Portland.

Their records the previous year were as follows: Orscher/Lucash 12th at Worlds, 3rd at 4CC, 5th at TEB, 6th at SA. Hinzmann/Parhem 5th at SA, 3rd at Nebelhorn.

Guess who the USFSA picked to go to Olympics/Worlds? Yes you got it!!! At least the USFSA is consistent.

Now to Amanda and Mark... they have been skating more than 40 years between them - and in those years dreamed of going to the Olympics. They have skated together for eight years and endured all kinds of hardships. They have trained well, done everything the USFSA asked them to do, had been dedicated and loyal skating denizens, and never once put their feet in their mouths. They've been repeatedly told, skate well at the Big Dance, and you will be rewarded. Well, they did!!!

How dare you rain in their parade!!! And to ask for an audit after the Olympics is just uncalled for. Who died and made you God.

You may be respected in this board, but I give you no respect. And just so you know, I am Amanda's father.
 

Nadine

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
I wouldn't say wiser... but MM is definitely OLD ;) *runs and hides so MM can't beat her with his cane*

Nadine - aside from those annoying Moderators this board DOES have an ignore feature that you can enable, if it makes it easier (but you're stuck with me... and that crabby ol' geezer with the cane!)


Lol, thanks for the tip!:biggrin: But I've only had to use the IGNORE feature once, and that was at either TEB or Rostelecom Cup this past Fall, during the live PBP. Then afterwards I discovered that it only works if I'm logged on (which I only do so if I want to post, which isn't much of the time), so in the end it really doesn't work. Not true in the real world. :cool::laugh:

Some people do not want to acknowledge that there is a procedure for selecting the Olympic Team. They demand an Olympic Trial in the form of the last Nationals before the current Olys.

Where these people get confused, I believe, is that the best skater(s) are well known before the last Nationals before the Olys. Those same skaters place 1,2,3,at the Nats, and it appears that the Team was decided by the Nats and not by the special committee. But not so. The decisions coincided.as they often do.

This year the best Pair Team for the last 3 years faltered at 1 and only 1 competition and finished too far down to be given an ok by the special committee which then decided to ok the 2nd place team at the Nats While I did not think it was the best decision, I was not a part of the deliberations.


Janet - Please show me the official version of the established procedure which you are talking about?

As I have said before the results of the Nats more often than not, coincide with the special committee's selection.


Thank you Nadine. I am the black sheep of the Board, but without black sheep, we would all be in agreement that so and so should change the color of her dress. :):):)


Lol, I really have never considered you the black sheep ever, as you seem to go hand-in-hand with Mathman's decisions, even here.;) Still, I enjoy reading what you have to say. And, lol, I haven't forgotten our little argument(s) years ago about Oksana Baiul, and also that one judge (can't recall his name, sorry), or the judging at that competition.:biggrin: But I do recall your temper, and I can relate.:laugh:

ps: oops, looks like you just pissed off someone's father, rotflmao!!!!!!!!:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I'm guessing a lot of people understand that realistically, USFS is just going to go by National results in picking the Oly team...

But there's no reason why we can't have a discussion as to why that may not always be a great idea.

Oh, of course. I'm sorry if what I wrote comes off as trying to squelch debate. That's what the forum is for!

The point I was trying to make, however clumsily, is that we should be careful to distinguish opinion from fact. It seemed to me that the facts about how the Olympic team is chosen are clear.

I will be the first to say I was wrong if the ladies and dance selections go any other way than 1-2 and 1-2-3.

Beyond that, sure we all have our opinions about what we think the selection committee should do instead. :agree:

I am Amanda's father.

Congratulations to you and your family on your daughter's achievement. (Yes, I know, Amanda and Mark are the ones who skated, but everyone understands how crucial the sacrifice and support of the family are, especially in the long haul.)

I can only image the pride you will feel when you watch your daughter march into the Olympic stadium with the U.S. team. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Yesterday Sandra mentioned that the committee might be picking between Ryan Bradley and Johnny Weir but she said something about being old school and for her, the top 3 go.

I would imagine Sandra has some formal contact with some members....

I got a hoot out of that, too. Obviously not only Sandra but the whole NBC crew had been clued in by the USFSA to go along with the USFSA's little joke. If you play the tape back you will see that they could hardly say it with a straight face. Basically, after they delivered the prepared line, "oh dear, I wonder what the committee will do," they immediately went to (Scott), yeah, it will be the top three.

Remember that the reason for all this is that the USFSA discovered a loophole in the USOC charter that basically required that the USFSA pretend to have other criteria than 1-2-3 at Nationals, lest they get into a sticky legal situation. Obviously NBC was willing to play along. :)
 
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formersk8ter

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Now to Amanda and Mark... they have been skating more than 40 years between them - and in those years dreamed of going to the Olympics. They have skated together for eight years and endured all kinds of hardships. They have trained well, done everything the USFSA asked them to do, had been dedicated and loyal skating denizens, and never once put their feet in their mouths. They've been repeatedly told, skate well at the Big Dance, and you will be rewarded. Well, they did!!!

How dare you rain in their parade!!! And to ask for an audit after the Olympics is just uncalled for. Who died and made you God.

You may be respected in this board, but I give you no respect. And just so you know, I am Amanda's father.

Congratulations to Amanda, to you and your entire family. Terrific post!
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Now to Amanda and Mark... they have been skating more than 40 years between them - and in those years dreamed of going to the Olympics. They have skated together for eight years and endured all kinds of hardships. They have trained well, done everything the USFSA asked them to do, had been dedicated and loyal skating denizens, and never once put their feet in their mouths. They've been repeatedly told, skate well at the Big Dance, and you will be rewarded. Well, they did!!!

.

I was so happy for Amanda and Mark and they earned the right to represent their country in Vancouver by the way they skated at Natls.

I hope they enjoy their Olympic experience and I will be cheering loudly for them.
 

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
I wanted to comment and say that I think the team placements were fair here. I'm fine with the idea of the committee taking into account other competitions BUT, I think that Nationals should only be subverted for someone who has major accomplishments on the international stage. I.e Japan giving Oda and Miki automatic births when they both finished 2nd at the GPF.

But I think that none of the US pairs teams have so distinguished themselves on the international stage that Nationals shouldn't matter. M/B I have liked a lot but their being the US top team internationally was in someways arguable. Their win last year was controversial and D/B beat them at Worlds, I seem to recall. I feel M/B aren't as good as they were two years ago...

What does it really matter if we have a team that finishes 8th or finishes 13th at the Olympics, anyways?

I understand what you mean. E/L have not done well internationally. They are well received in the U.S. and are often crowd favorites at Nationals, but that doesn't matter so much when you are going to an International event like the Olympics. You could argue that I/B can't potentially finish that much higher than E/L, so who cares if we sent 2nd or 3rd place... But I personally would always try to finish as high as I could at the Olympics, and send the teams with the best, most realistic chances at scoring well there.

E/L though have always gone into international competitions as a low ranking American team. That's hardly going to get you a whole lot of cred from the international judges. They might get more notice now that they are the US silver medalists.
 
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roemerr

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
. . . none of the US pairs teams have so distinguished themselves on the international stage that Nationals shouldn't matter. M/B I have liked a lot but their being the US top team internationally was in someways arguable. Their win last year was controversial and D/B beat them at Worlds, I seem to recall. I feel M/B aren't as good as they were two years ago...

EXCELLENT POST :agree: :agree: :agree:
Some people seem to be looking at individual Grand Prix competitions of this year to claim one team better internationally than the other. They are forgetting the actual performances contained mistakes from all teams, PCS scores are somewhat dependent on reputation and experience, and each event had different competitors. Some could argue that some teams had easier or harder assignments. That is why the committee's criteria did not include individual Grand Prixs. They only mentioned 2010 Nationals, 2009 Worlds, 2009 4CCs, and 2010 Grand Prix Final. Based on performances at these events I think the committee made a sound decision. GO FLORIDA TEAMS!
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Lol, I really have never considered you the black sheep ever, as you seem to go hand-in-hand with Mathman's decisions.:

I think you just insulted Joe. He never agrees with me on anything. :rofl:

"Mathman's decisions?" Oh gosh, I hope I don't come off as making "decisions." Silly opinions, lame jokes, and pompous pontificating, yes. ;)
 
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Nadine

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
If you want precedence, flash back to 2006 St Louis Nationals.

Hinzmann/Parchem, despite flawed performances, outpointed Orscher/Lucash who were the reigning National Champions from Portland. Hinzmann/Parchem were third in Portland.

Their records the previous year were as follows: Orscher/Lucash 12th at Worlds, 3rd at 4CC, 5th at TEB, 6th at SA. Hinzmann/Parhem 5th at SA, 3rd at Nebelhorn.

Guess who the USFSA picked to go to Olympics/Worlds? Yes you got it!!! At least the USFSA is consistent.

Now to Amanda and Mark... they have been skating more than 40 years between them - and in those years dreamed of going to the Olympics. They have skated together for eight years and endured all kinds of hardships. They have trained well, done everything the USFSA asked them to do, had been dedicated and loyal skating denizens, and never once put their feet in their mouths. They've been repeatedly told, skate well at the Big Dance, and you will be rewarded. Well, they did!!!

How dare you rain in their parade!!! And to ask for an audit after the Olympics is just uncalled for. Who died and made you God.

You may be respected in this board, but I give you no respect. And just so you know, I am Amanda's father.



Mr. Apollo13, don't forget that I&B have also worked just as hard as your daughter & her partner (not to mention the countless other skaters out there), so I don't see how that has any relevance to the discussion. They ALL work hard.

Heck, if that were part of it, might as well bring in the fact that Rena has overcome cancer as well. And I know the Baldwins are supposed to come from money, so I could see how people may resent that fact. And as you eluded to, yes, John Baldwin has put his foot in his mouth so many times it's not even funny.

Lol, I'm not even a fan of pairs skating anymore, but when I see what *I* perceive as injustice I speak up. I&B have every right to show their dissatisfaction, same as the fans do, even when we know that in the end it doesn't matter. But that's not the point, the point is that we're allowed to discuss & debate. Thank God we live in America!:thumbsup:

Last note, USFSA is known to play their little power games, and who they like goes & whom they don't like have to make sure to earn it by more than a 1/2 point, so they don't get left out in the cold. For example, Johnny Weir has never been a USFSA darling, unlike Michelle Kwan, the good little soldier. Johnny's just lucky he didn't win by only a 1/2 point over Bradley, otherwise he would've been the one left home. And that's only JMHO. :)

And as you said, your daughter & her partner have been loyal skating denizens, never putting a foot wrong (unlike John Baldwin, lol:biggrin:), so Congrats on your daughter & her partner making the Olympic Team. What an honor!!!!!!!!!:rock:
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
And just so you know, I am Amanda's father.

I've already congratulated you and Amanda elsewhere but wanted to voice it again on here! They were absolutely FANTASTIC and I'm so bummed I missed being there!!!!! Congratulations and enjoy vancouver, they (and their families) deserve it!:rock::rock::rock:
 

Nadine

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
I think you just insulted Joe. He never agrees with me on anything. :rofl:

"Mathman's decisions?" Oh gosh, I hope I don't come off as making "decisions." Silly opinions, lame jokes, and pompous pontificating, yes. ;)

We will have to agree to disagree, Mathman.:biggrin:
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Let's look at I/B international record. Their highest finish in World's was 4th in 2006, right after the Olympics. In their last appearance in 2008 they placed 10th.

Their last appearance in the GPF was in 2006-2007 where they placed 4th, also their best GPF finish.

I really don't think that's super compelling. Yes, E/L have not proven themselves on the international stage, but how long do they have to wait for the chance? Yes the Olympics is a high-stakes competition, and certainly we want to send our best out there, but how is E/L going to prove they're not a fluke if they're not given the chance to prove it?

As I said before, other skaters need to have that Olympic experience. I mean look at Shen and Zhao. When they competed in 1998, they were young and were without lots of the stuff of the top skaters,but they had that experience. And look them now.

By the way Mr. Apollo, I'm very happy for your daughter! I just loved her pure joy and she seems like a humble person, which bodes well no matter what place they end up in the Olympics.
 

daisies

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Mr. Apollo13, don't forget that I&B have also worked just as hard as your daughter & her partner (not to mention the countless other skaters out there), so I don't see how that has any relevance to the discussion. They ALL work hard.

Heck, if that were part of it, might as well bring in the fact that Rena has overcome cancer as well.

I&B have every right to show their dissatisfaction, same as the fans do, even when we know that in the end it doesn't matter. But that's not the point, the point is that we're allowed to discuss & debate. Thank God we live in America!:thumbsup:

So much word to these quotes from Nadine. Everyone here is entitled to his or her opinion. If raining on someone's parade was discouraged, a lot of these message boards would be pretty bare! :laugh:
 

Tesla

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 28, 2005
I really don't think that's super compelling. Yes, E/L have not proven themselves on the international stage, but how long do they have to wait for the chance? Yes the Olympics is a high-stakes competition, and certainly we want to send our best out there, but how is E/L going to prove they're not a fluke if they're not given the chance to prove it?

But isn't this the first time E/L haven't bombed at Nationals? They've had plenty of years to prove themselves, but they've always fallen short. If anything, this year's performance may prove to be a fluke. I hope not. I really enjoyed their program after it got going. I thought the beginning was slow and dull, but they really brought the energy and excitement after the slow start. I sincerely hope they can keep up the momentum.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
But isn't this the first time E/L haven't bombed at Nationals? They've had plenty of years to prove themselves, but they've always fallen short. If anything, this year's performance may prove to be a fluke. I hope not. I really enjoyed their program after it got going. I thought the beginning was slow and dull, but they really brought the energy and excitement after the slow start. I sincerely hope they can keep up the momentum.

This is slightly OT, but one only has to look at someone like Akiko Suzuki. She's been on the scene since 2002 but just has gotten some notice this year with her great GPF finish and a solid Silver medal at National's (which was her first in nine tries). Granted she had to deal with anorexia that took her out for several seasons, but I still think she's still a valid example to point out.

I think E/L are similar in the sense they've been close, but not quite there. And I wouldn't define a pewter finish in 07 and 09 and a 5th place finish in 2008 bombing at nationals. I think the fact is that some skaters take longer than others to come into their own and this might be one of those cases. Not everyone can be a Barrett/Denney or a McBru.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
they never truly bombed. They've skated relatively well in the nationals I've been able to witness (since NBC and ABC kept chacking them previously).

and I agree with Mrs. P - it seems to me that the skaters who are instant successes 9 times out of 10 become that flash in teh pan type... they're bright very quickly and very rarely once they have issues do they make a comeback... those that rise gradually seem to have longer careers...
 
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inside edge

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
If you want precedence, flash back to 2006 St Louis Nationals.

Hinzmann/Parchem, despite flawed performances, outpointed Orscher/Lucash who were the reigning National Champions from Portland. Hinzmann/Parchem were third in Portland.

Their records the previous year were as follows: Orscher/Lucash 12th at Worlds, 3rd at 4CC, 5th at TEB, 6th at SA. Hinzmann/Parhem 5th at SA, 3rd at Nebelhorn.

Guess who the USFSA picked to go to Olympics/Worlds? Yes you got it!!! At least the USFSA is consistent.

Now to Amanda and Mark... they have been skating more than 40 years between them - and in those years dreamed of going to the Olympics. They have skated together for eight years and endured all kinds of hardships. They have trained well, done everything the USFSA asked them to do, had been dedicated and loyal skating denizens, and never once put their feet in their mouths. They've been repeatedly told, skate well at the Big Dance, and you will be rewarded. Well, they did!!!

How dare you rain in their parade!!! And to ask for an audit after the Olympics is just uncalled for. Who died and made you God.

You may be respected in this board, but I give you no respect. And just so you know, I am Amanda's father.

Wow!!! :bow: :bow:
Congratulations!!! :party2: :party2:
 
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FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Mr. Apollo13, don't forget that I&B have also worked just as hard as your daughter & her partner (not to mention the countless other skaters out there), so I don't see how that has any relevance to the discussion. They ALL work hard.

And as you said, your daughter & her partner have been loyal skating denizens, never putting a foot wrong (unlike John Baldwin, lol:biggrin:), so Congrats on your daughter & her partner making the Olympic Team. What an honor!!!!!!!!!:rock:

you beat me to it. I was going to say Rena and John add up to be 100 years of skating between them. They are the one who feel bad at the end of the day. Amanda gets to go, so she should be able to take a little heat from fans.
 

sk855

Spectator
Joined
Mar 13, 2005
Well said Apollo 13! Congratulations to Amanda and Mark on a dream finally realized. They have been steadily building towards this moment for years. Their short and freeskate successes were no fluke, but the result of many years of hard work and sacrifice. Congratulations to all of our 2010 Olympians! Go USA!!!! :clap:
 

Dark-Eyes

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
I'd just like to say that Pairs were so exciting to watch this year. I was pleasantly surprised. I haven't enjoyed pairs in years because of our lackluster performances here in the United States. Can't wait to see what happens with our gold team this year. Can they compete at the Olympics? I don't even know.... I'm not up to speed on pairs. Either way, it will be fun to see them skate there.
 
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