Senior Pairs Long Program

[MikiAndoFan#1]

Do Keauna and Rockne still get to go to the Olympics?

[kate]

I wonder if the second sbs 2a was downgraded for I/B. I can't see how they could be third otherwise. Still, the closeness in their score to E/L could factor in if you take the GP performances into account as the USFSA says they will.

I don't know...I don't know anything about IJS for pairs, but it's awfully easy to lose a level on something like a spin in singles. So something that might be "planned" as a L4 spin might get called as a L2 because your change of edge wasn't clear and your sit wasn't low enough, or your spirals didn't get the level you wanted because you didn't hold them long enough. These both happen in pairs, and there's also the lifts on top of that. I have no idea how the levels work on those, so I won't even try, but I could imagine that I/B might have gotten lower levels on a lift or spin here and there, and those add up fast, even if you can't easily notice them. The -1s also add up fast, and there were probably some off those, not just on the throw 3A. So I can see how the scores would work out to what they are even if the sbs 2A weren't downgraded, though they might have been.

[jcoates]

Actually, this is one situation I'd send D/B and I/B to the Olympics. Evora/Ladwig haven't been received that well by intl judges even with decent skates. I/B, if they skate reasonably clean, have enough gravitas with intl judges to do OK. How we all feel about Baldwin is less relevant.

As for "doing right" I'm not in the camp you that you automatically send the top 2, esp with these scores practically identical. I'd send E/L to 4CC, naming them as alts to Olympics.

I'm glad at least someone else said what I was thinking. If the USFSA goes to the trouble to create and publish a list of selection criteria, they have to abide by it. I/B have been solid this season and have been on the podium every season at nationals for at least seven straight. Either way, one of those teams will be gutted sadly.

Too bad for M/B. They need to start fresh and build from the ground up.

[bigsisjiejie]

Do Keauna and Rockne still get to go to the Olympics?

Keauna and Rockne aren't likely to be going anywhere, though they could get named to the 4CC team, and/or could be alternates for either Oly or Worlds. Not likely first alternates though. Very bad competition for them, I'm sure they're devastated. They have a lot going for them, so Iperhaps they can work out their technical issues and stay together. I'm not that hopeful though...

[Tonichelle]

Do Keauna and Rockne still get to go to the Olympics?

we'll find out in 2 hours who gets named... if they get to go over either of the top two teams I will be ticked... I/B have a better chance to make it over Amanda and Mark... but I wouldn't want that to happen.

I guess my feeling is that if I/B and M/B wanted to really make an argument for that second spot on the team you'd just have to point them to worlds... if they'd been able to pull it together last year we'd have three spots... yeah it sounds mean, but realistically Amanda and Mark did everything asked, and it's not like I/B are going to end up on the podium come vancouver... John can barely get out of his own way when he starts jumping.

[katymay]

I disagree and think you DO send the top two UNLESS there are extraordinary circumstances such as an illness, healing injury etc. How you skate at a certain point and time is the nature of the beast, and to be honest, none of these pairs are serious contenders on the world stage. We do not cultivate pair teams the same way other countries do (i.e. by putting together two very strong singles skaters-and wouldn't Caroline Zhang be a terrific pair partner?).

[jcoates]

we'll find out in 2 hours who gets named... if they get to go over either of the top two teams I will be ticked... I/B have a better chance to make it over Amanda and Mark... but I wouldn't want that to happen.

I guess my feeling is that if I/B and M/B wanted to really make an argument for that second spot on the team you'd just have to point them to worlds... if they'd been able to pull it together last year we'd have three spots... yeah it sounds mean, but realistically Amanda and Mark did everything asked, and it's not like I/B are going to end up on the podium come vancouver... John can barely get out of his own way when he starts jumping.

I/B did not go to Worlds last year. The reason we have two spots instead of three is due to M/B's performance last year.

BTW, I am asking this in all seriousness and with no snark intended. Is there a particular reason why you appear to dislike John so much. Was he rude to you at an event or something? I am genuinely puzzled. He's no angel, but what pro athlete with his longevity is?

[Joesitz]

I think Innue and Baldwin will be considered too.

McL/Bru could have been considered but 2 poor skates, I would think is a no no.

No doubt about Cadee/Denny, they will go and they may even podium, if they skate the way they did.

Congrats to Evora/Ladwiq.

[pista04]

The reason we have two spots instead of three is due to M/B's performance last year.

Now, now, that's not very nice nor accurate...while they may have been the 2nd of the 2 American teams, Denney/Barrett only came in 9th...meaning McLaughlin/Brubaker would have had to make top 4 to secure a third spot. So total blame on the 2 olympic spots should not be placed on McL/Bru.

[cornell08]

Yeah, M/B are staying home or should. Its not like tonight and yesterday were anomalies for them-- when was the last time they skated clean? Also, might I add their Worlds placement was BEHIND D/B who admirably got 9th in a daunting field. Their lifts used to be the thing that really wowed me but now I'm more wow'ed by Evora/Ladwig's lifts. Denney/Barret are solid man, and no nerves! It was like they weren't even skating under pressure. I'm really impressed. lol I wonder how much their coach is going to bawl now lol.....he's definitely one of those coach-characters-- still behind the always entertaining Brian Orser, Yao Bin and Tatiana Tarasova though :chorus:

[1795]

John Baldwin bugs me.

ditto. just saying.

but good point, E/L has virtually no international reception
I/B do but ...i'd hate to be evora right now....


i say top two, no questions asked.

[boo69]

That would really suck if Amanda and Mark was not named to the Olympic team. It's not like I/B have a chance on the podium anyways. And internationally I/B haven't been doing well. So it would make no difference whether they sent E/L or I/B Plus I/B already been to the Olympics. Give another team a chance of a lifetime. E/L deserve to go the the Olympics fair and square whether they've had international experience or not.

[jcoates]

Now, now, that's not very nice nor accurate...while they may have been the 2nd of the 2 American teams, Denney/Barrett only came in 9th...meaning McLaughlin/Brubaker would have had to make top 4 to secure a third spot. So total blame on the 2 olympic spots should not be placed on McL/Bru.

That is true and I meant no slight by omitting D/B whom I love. But M/B were the US champs coming in and had international experience, while D/B had none. They were expected to do far better than they did.

That does bring up an interesting point however. With the Canadian, Chinese and Russian teams having solid depth in pairs, they appear to be the frontrunners to earn three spots for worlds next year. Currently they will have a total of eight teams in Torino with up to seven of them possibly making the top ten. That of course assumes that they all show up. If they don't ( see at least S/Z skipping) and other teams with no chance of earning three spots (S/S) also skip, we could send an experienced contingent to Torino of D/B and I/B and could have thee spots next year. I think that is very conceivable.

[gold12345]

I think M/B's Olympic chance is over for now. Maybe if they had finished top 3, but they even lost to C/O by a bit (I still don't know if I agree with it). I just feel like this whole thing would be different if they had not fallen on the death spiral yesterday. Such a silly mistake, and it cost them at least 1 spot in the standings, and probably more. So sad. This is the first time in the history of their partnership that they have ever lost a National level competition, never mind not even get on the Nationals podium.

They will probably get Four Continents, and they should have a great chance to medal there. lol. I can't help but laugh... It just seems weird that that's where they would be going. At 4CC, they would get to skate without pressure, and I hope they could have fun with it... Gotta look at the positive in it. They deserve to just enjoy skating and not worry about the results for once. I still feel like they would score better at the Olympics than basically all the American teams (that's how it was going on the Grand Prix this season), but what can you do... Nationals really does decide everything. We could re-do this entire competition over tomorrow and M/B could win it. It's just frustrating, especially seeing how great they looked in practice this week.

I hope M/B take some time now to work out some more of the kinks in their skating. They are still soooo young and have such great potential. They have so many qualities that I just love to see in a pair team. Hopefully now with less pressure, it will make things a bit easier.

[museksk8r]

That would really suck if Amanda and Mark was not named to the Olympic team. It's not like I/B have a chance on the podium anyways. And internationally I/B haven't been doing well. So it would make no difference whether they sent E/L or I/B Plus I/B already been to the Olympics. Give another team a chance of a lifetime. E/L deserve to go the the Olympics fair and square whether they've had international experience or not.

I totally agree! Amanda and Mark have stuck with this sport through all the hard times and it was beautiful to see how humbled and happy they were to win a deserved silver medal. They should get to have the opportunity to go to the Olympics!