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Thread: Thoughts on U.S. Nationals judging?

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    Thoughts on U.S. Nationals judging?

    With all this chatter about score inflation, I've been pleasantly surprised that we didn't see that at this Nationals.

    Jeremy Abbott certainly got a really high score, but I would expect so after he did 8 triples and a quad. Patrick Chan didn't do nearly that much technically and he got a similar score for his FS.

    And it looks like PCS has only been a minor factor here. I think Lysacek and Weir got some reputation PCS during the FS, but it's not much higher than what Ryan Bradley or Adam Rippon got.

    Any thoughts on why the U.S. judges aren't inflating scores so far?

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    L'art pour l'art Medusa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Any thoughts on why the U.S. judges aren't inflating scores so far?
    Because they are better than Russians, Canadians and Japanese?

    No, seriously. I mean it. I am so pleasantly surprised by this. They judged what they saw - and not what possible political considerations or former results might have dictated them.

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    Rink Rat i love to skate's Avatar
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    There is still two events to go...

    FYI, Patrick still did 8 triples and had a pretty fantastic skate. Jeremy's skate was exceptional though! Good for him!
    Last edited by i love to skate; 01-17-2010 at 10:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    Because they are better than Russians, Canadians and Japanese?

    No, seriously. I mean it. I am so pleasantly surprised by this. They judged what they saw - and not what possible political considerations or former results might have dictated them.
    And French, Swiss and Finns.

    I've gotta echo Medusa on this, though. The judging was far fairer than I anticipated, and that's worth applauding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    With all this chatter about score inflation, I've been pleasantly surprised that we didn't see that at this Nationals.

    Jeremy Abbott certainly got a really high score, but I would expect so after he did 8 triples and a quad. Patrick Chan didn't do nearly that much technically and he got a similar score for his FS.

    And it looks like PCS has only been a minor factor here. I think Lysacek and Weir got some reputation PCS during the FS, but it's not much higher than what Ryan Bradley or Adam Rippon got.

    Any thoughts on why the U.S. judges aren't inflating scores so far?
    The inflation will come later I think. In the ladies event, there are what, 24 entries? And I'm sure half of those entries will attempt a 3lz-2t, 3f, and 2a in the short, and probably 6 or 10 will be clean on the jumps, meaning PCS will decide who gets what place.

    In the long, more things can happen, but last year, Alissa got almost the exact same score for her 3 triple FS that Rachael and Caroline got for their 7 (6 clean) triple FS. In the long the ladies will attempt between 5 and 7 triples, and for anyone that isn't Sasha, Alissa, Ashley, Rachael, Mirai, Caroline , the more triples you land the higher your score will be.

    Among the top 6 though, it will come down to PCS. If someone like Maxwell, Gao, or Bulanhaugi skates really great, I can see something like what happened to Adam Rippon happening to them, getting bumped down in the rankings to like 4th or below even when if they outperform the favorites.

    If all the top 6 splat that is the only way anyone who isn't Sasha, Alissa, Ashley, Rachael, Caroline, or Mirai will be on the podium or named to the Olympic team. But that's just how I see it.

    So annoying, if Sasha pulls a Lepisto and wins a spot i'll be pissed. Oh yes, I can be the best skater in the world with one 3toe and one 3loop as the only jumps in my LP. Aren't I sooo impressive? Watch out Yuna Kim, I'm going to break your World record with three whole triples in the LP!!!

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    ...not what possible political considerations or former results might have dictated them.
    It's all a plot. By low-balling the U.S. skaters at U.S. Nationals they will shame all the other judges into giving out low scores at the Olympics. Then the U.S. bloc will pull a switcheroo and send U.S. skaters scores through the roof.

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    I think any plot relying on the shame of international judges is doomed to failure

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    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    It's all a plot. By low-balling the U.S. skaters at U.S. Nationals they will shame all the other judges into giving out low scores at the Olympics. Then the U.S. bloc will pull a switcheroo and send U.S. skaters scores through the roof.
    me likes your thinking

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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    I've gotta echo Medusa on this, though. The judging was far fairer than I anticipated, and that's worth applauding.
    I must agree. I'm glad there has been minimal score inflation so far. I hope it continues next weekend with Ladies and Dance.

    It will be interesting to see what happens if a) Cohen competes and b) all top 6 ladies skate perfect SPs.

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    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    It will be interesting to see what happens if a) Cohen competes and b) all top 6 ladies skate perfect SPs.
    yeah, because THAT's going to happen.... (hey I've kept my expectations low SO far with fairly good results that proved me wrong!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    yeah, because THAT's going to happen.... (hey I've kept my expectations low SO far with fairly good results that proved me wrong!)
    Notice I said "IF"

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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    I must agree. I'm glad there has been minimal score inflation so far. I hope it continues next weekend with Ladies and Dance.

    It will be interesting to see what happens if a) Cohen competes and b) all top 6 ladies skate perfect SPs.
    I know what will happen!

    1.) Cohen - 75
    2.) Czisny - 70
    3.) Nagasu - 62
    4.) Flatt - 61
    5.) Wagner - 60
    6.) Caroline - 59

    Then Gao and Maxwell if perfect will get, you know, maybe a 50, no higher than 55 by any means. :banging: hate the judging system :banging:

    So unfair but you know that's what it will look like if they are all clean. Czisny got a 66 last year and her SP this year is just a better program.

    Actually, change Sasha to an 80 and Alissa a 75, just for kicks .

    Then Sasha will do the exact same program in Vancouver and get a 57! No joke
    Last edited by Tonichelle; 01-18-2010 at 12:00 AM. Reason: USE THE EDIT FEATURE DON'T DOUBLE POST

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    I don't think any of the ladies will get 70+. Cohen could approach that if she's on fire though. But then look, Mirai got about that in 2008 when she first came on the scene. I think it could be close BUT the other girls must bring it. In previous years they have..save for Wagner in 2009.

    Now the thing that would really end it all is if Cohen OR Nagasu completely nails the SP and the other girls have problems. Then either girl would have to cough up the FS in order to lose. Cohen has done that plenty of times in her past competitive career. Czisny scores high in the SP but I think after last year, they won't give her 112 again if she performs a repeat of last year's Nats FS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    I don't think any of the ladies will get 70+. Cohen could approach that if she's on fire though. But then look, Mirai got about that in 2008 when she first came on the scene. I think it could be close BUT the other girls must bring it. In previous years they have..save for Wagner in 2009.

    Now the thing that would really end it all is if Cohen OR Nagasu completely nails the SP and the other girls have problems. Then either girl would have to cough up the FS in order to lose. Cohen has done that plenty of times in her past competitive career. Czisny scores high in the SP but I think after last year, they won't give her 112 again if she performs a repeat of last year's Nats FS.
    I agree. This season, Alissa and Mirai have had the highest SP scores among the american ladies (63 and 62) meaning they have the best shot to do the best in the SP. For Alissa though, the SP will be the test. She's become a SP skater recently except when the pressure is high and then she messes up badly; her LP are usually always about the same (3 clean triples, 3 URs, and 1 or 2 falls). I think if Alissa makes mistakes in the SP she will be out of Olympic contention. I think the only way Mirai will have a real shot at an Olympic spot is if she has a clean SP. Rachael, Ashley, Caroline can be counted on to do pretty good to great LPs, but they don't score as high in the SP as Alissa and Mirai if they are all at their best.

    I see it as, if Alissa, Mirai, or Caroline are sub-par in the SP, they are most likely done, unless Rachael and Ashley are even worse.

    I leave Sasha out of this because I have no idea how she has been skating and how she will be scored.

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    One thing worth noting about the judging is that the PCS for Jeremy was more in line with what many posters here thought he should have gotten in the FS at the GPF. The only real difference there was a fall on the quad.

    It will be interesting to see if he can get similar marks at the Olympics for the same quality performance.

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