"Asian figure skaters good but Russians are coming"

silverlake22 · Jan 18, 2010

poloska said:
Lisa is adorable, she is very mature for her age. Be sure you have seen her exhibition from last Russian Nationals, it was great. I've seen her skating live and she has very good speed, her jumps are light and quite confident.

Is Lisa the 11 year old?

silverlake22 · Jan 18, 2010

oleada said:
I don't know if she has a toe loop. She's never attempted one, I don't think.

I hope she stays on the JGP - it would be the best place for her. She's not quite the soup yet. Besides, Russia will have a formidable JGP team next year: Sotnikova, Tuktamysheva, Ovcharova, Agafonova, Biryukova and Zaseeva all look worthy of spots. I assume Shelepen will go to the SGP.

Ahh, so many little Russians! That will be EXCITING :laugh:

. Once they get older maybe people will stop regarding Leonova as the next Slutskaya because clearly she is nowhere near that level, and yet people are saying she has a very good shot at medaling at the Olympics. As far as I can tell, she is about even with most of the US ladies right now, who aren't exactly medal contenders.

bigsisjiejie · Jan 18, 2010

bekalc said:
I'm not sure how underrotation isn't an issue with technique. I certainly think it is.

Elizaveta has excellent skating skills and speed especially for her age. And her muscality is there as well. BOTH girls are likely to grow some more, including Anna who is only 14 too. In the case of Elizaveta though, Elizaveta has much better jumping technique. Its hard to now with puberty but Elizaveta's jumping technique will likely serve her very well when puberty hits.

Sound basics at this point are way more important factor than charm/choregraphy. Elizaveta has very sound basics and that's going to serve her well. Its hard to know with the future, but I've found when watching the youngsters that the smartest thing to look at is the basics.

Very much agree with this. I remember about 3-4 years ago, when Caroline Zhang was being touted as the Next Great Skater, that I was shaking my head looking at her technique then and said "she's going to have problems down the road unless she fixes her technical issues." And now, sure enough. I suspect with Mishin as her coach, Elizaveta will not be allowed to get away with anything less than great technique. From what I see now, she has fewer things to fix than Kanako does.

miki88 · Jan 18, 2010

silverlake22 said:
I know Morozov is talking about the Russians, but Japan's Kanako Murakami beat Polina at the JGPF with some technical mistakes. She is probably the best little junior lady out there, and even she only came in 5th at Japanese Nationals (which is pretty darn good considering only Mao, Akiko, Yukari, and Miki placed ahead of her). These young girls will have to wait a few years to compete with the top guns so they can work on their PCS scores, which are always higher for experienced senior skaters.

I also like Kanako :yes: I am curious though why are these junior advancing at a slower rate than before? I mean Tara and Oksana won Olympics around their age right? Or maybe the field has gotten deeper?

bigsisjiejie · Jan 18, 2010

miki88 said:
I also like Kanako :yes: I am curious though why are these junior advancing at a slower rate than before? I mean Tara and Oksana won Olympics around their age right? Or maybe the field has gotten deeper?

Well for one thing, minimum age limitations put into place around the time and after the Tara/Oksana era.

miki88 · Jan 18, 2010

bigsisjiejie said:
Well for one thing, minimum age limitations put into place around the time and after the Tara/Oksana era.

Well it's not really about the age. AT 14 ~15, Tara and Oksana can rival the best in the world. But even if these juniors are good, they can't rival the top skaters now in terms of skills. Maybe not being able to compete with seniors is a drawback so I guess in that respect age plays a role.

silverlake22 · Jan 18, 2010

miki88 said:
Well it's not really about the age. AT 14 ~15, Tara and Oksana can rival the best in the world. But even if these juniors are good, they can't rival the top skaters now in terms of skills. Maybe not being able to compete with seniors is a drawback so I guess in that respect age plays a role.

Tara and Oksana were also smaller than these girls at their age. Wasn't Tara like 4'9" when she won the Olympics at 14? These Russian girls and Kanako are very skinny, but they are of a substantial height for their age (Polina and Anna are around 5'3", Kanako 5'2", don't know about Elizaveta but she looks tall), and will continue to grow taller for a few more years. The other thing is they are being stricter about kids these days, what with age limits and such, they probably are only allowed to train a certain number of hours per week. They could also already be on the decline already, as I think that is what happened with Caroline Zhang, she was the best when she was 13, and Mao was the best at 14-15. I know Polina has grown quite a few inches since last season and Anna too so I growth spurt might be slowing progress. This is all just speculation though, maybe we are still waiting for the next great female skater.

bekalc · Jan 18, 2010

miki88 said:
I also like Kanako :yes: I am curious though why are these junior advancing at a slower rate than before? I mean Tara and Oksana won Olympics around their age right? Or maybe the field has gotten deeper?

Mao and Yu-na were more than good enough to compete with the best in the world at 14-15. Eliza JUST turned 13. I think as she matures her artistry will grow. My only concern is the double edged sword of Mishin being her coach. Mishin is amazing at teaching young skaters very good basics and great jumping technique. :clap:

But when it comes to well packaging his skaters...:no:.However, maybe it will be different with a female skater. So far she's packaged much better than Polina (for example) Eliza's short is lovely.

But if Eliza continues at this pace, she'll be able to compete with the best in the world very, very, very soon. Her jumps are a lot better than Murakami's and she has all her triples. However, of course you never know, I don't want to get my hopes up about this kid until she's competiting Senior.

silverlake22 · Jan 18, 2010

bekalc said:
Mao and Yu-na were more than good enough to compete with the best in the world at 14-15. Eliza JUST turned 13. I think as she matures her artistry will grow. My only concern is the double edged sword of Mishin being her coach. Mishin is amazing at teaching young skaters very good basics and great jumping technique. But when it comes to well packaging his skaters...:no:.However, maybe it will be different with a female skater. So far she's packaged much better than Polina (for example) Eliza's short is lovely.

But if Eliza continues at this pace, she'll be able to compete with the best in the world very, very, very soon. Her jumps are a lot better than Murakami's and she has all her triples. However, of course you never know, I don't want to get my hopes up about this kid until she's competiting Senior.

What's the matter with Murakami's jumps? I think they look pretty good!

bigsisjiejie · Jan 19, 2010

silverlake22 said:
What's the matter with Murakami's jumps? I think they look pretty good!

Well for starters, Flutz-o-Rama. Called on it 3 for 3 times in this seasons JGP Series + Final. Also, there's something not quite right about her technique on some of her jumps but it's not present in every jumping attempt, so I can't put my finger on it. She definitely has a habitual unorthodox little thing she does with her free leg on many of the entries, which is unattractive and possibly could contribute to future problems. Watch some recent videos of her closely. That's not saying she's not a very good junior skater--she is--but will it hold up over the next few years? Guess that's the million-dollar question with all of these young ladies.

bekalc · Jan 19, 2010

silverlake22 said:
What's the matter with Murakami's jumps? I think they look pretty good!

What the other person said. Horrible Mao like flutz. No 3loop this seasons, and not so great flip entrance. Eliza has all five triples, and a pure flip and lutz with much better jumping technique.

pupitre · Jan 20, 2010

bigsisjiejie said:
Well for starters, Flutz-o-Rama. Called on it 3 for 3 times in this seasons JGP Series + Final. Also, there's something not quite right about her technique on some of her jumps but it's not present in every jumping attempt, so I can't put my finger on it. She definitely has a habitual unorthodox little thing she does with her free leg on many of the entries, which is unattractive and possibly could contribute to future problems. Watch some recent videos of her closely. That's not saying she's not a very good junior skater--she is--but will it hold up over the next few years? Guess that's the million-dollar question with all of these young ladies.

Is that her free leg bending (or kicking) in a bit awkward angle at the entry for her toe jumps? That's all I can notice about her jumps that seems off, but again I am no expert. And ya, flutzing is obvious.

Binthere · Jan 20, 2010

... and within each cycle there are mini-cycles. Oksana came out of nowhere a season before the Olympics. Time will tell. The intensity of effort at all sorts of levels in preparation for the first Russian hosted Winter Olympics will certainly be pretty mind boggling.

Kwanford Wife · Jan 20, 2010

Binthere said:
... and within each cycle there are mini-cycles. Oksana came out of nowhere a season before the Olympics. Time will tell. The intensity of effort at all sorts of levels in preparation for the first Russian hosted Winter Olympics will certainly be pretty mind boggling.

Absolutely. And I don't see the issue with the comment - we were told seven years ago that the Asian Invasion would change the face of this sport and that's come to pass...

berrycute · Jan 20, 2010

Of the juniors I've seen, I really think Eliza is the star. She has a nice style, and light, elegant jumps. I also like Polina, her Polotsvian Dances was more exciting to me than Ashley's, although her costume was HILARIOUS.

berrycute · Jan 20, 2010

PS what do you think Morozov meant by "talk to the plants"? I've never heard that expression before...

silverlake22 · Jan 20, 2010

berrycute said:
Of the juniors I've seen, I really think Eliza is the star. She has a nice style, and light, elegant jumps. I also like Polina, her Polotsvian Dances was more exciting to me than Ashley's, although her costume was HILARIOUS.

Yeah I don't know what the deal with that was. It made her look like an arabian boy...

Moxie · Jan 20, 2010

Yeah, all of Morosov's talk really seems premature. We just don't know what will happen when they hit puberty. But Tuktamysheva's lucky to have Mishin teach her the best technique. I was actually thinking Mao should go study with Mishin. But I doubt that'd happen because it would a huge slap in the face to TAT.

berrycute · Jan 21, 2010

Moxie said:
Yeah, all of Morosov's talk really seems premature. We just don't know what will happen when they hit puberty. But Tuktamysheva's lucky to have Mishin teach her the best technique. I was actually thinking Mao should go study with Mishin. But I doubt that'd happen because it would a huge slap in the face to TAT.

Personally I think TAT deserves a slap in the face

janetfan · Jan 21, 2010

berrycute said:
Personally I think TAT deserves a slap in the face

Be nice

"Asian figure skaters good but Russians are coming"

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