LAST MINUTE Thoughts on Ladies | Page 2 | Golden Skate

LAST MINUTE Thoughts on Ladies

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
I think Rachael always plans to do 3f-3t in the SP and LP. The only way she won't go for it in the SP I think is if she skates toward the end and all the contenders messed up. She needs the 3-3 to stay up in the SP scores if the other girls are clean.

I think Christina Gao will do what Adam Rippon did, and the commentators will be like WATCH OUT 2014, even though she (and Adam too) are clearly good enough to compete at the Olympics now, but the judges just won't let that happen, barring some meltdown of the top 5 ladies. I want Angela to skate well too and NOT get cheated out of good scores like last year.

We shall see. I think Mirai and Alissa are up to something and might surprise us :agree:

there is no way xtina gao is good enough now compare to the top 5. Everything about her screams juniorish. She can't even beat kanako.
Don't worry about the judges keeping her down. Her skating will keep her down.
 

bigsisjiejie

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Making comparisons between Christina and Adam is a bit spurious right now, other than they share the same coach. Adam is a 2-time World Jr Champion, Gao has yet to be selected to go (might happen this year, though). She's progressing nicely but I don't think is really "there" as a top senior lady yet. IMO she will end up around 7th or 8th at Nationals this year, but that still wouldn't be bad for a debut

Adam's readiness to compete in the Olympics right now, with a shaky 3A, is also a bit of a stretch. 2014 sounds about right and maybe for Christina too.
 

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
I think that the judges would "have let" Adam place in the top three if he had deserved it, but facts are he did not skate well enough. I can't realy see Gao skating past the more mature ladies either. I have seen her land the jumps, and she has good basics, but still very juniorish, as she should be.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
I think that the judges would "have let" Adam place in the top three if he had deserved it, but facts are he did not skate well enough. I can't realy see Gao skating past the more mature ladies either. I have seen her land the jumps, and she has good basics, but still very juniorish, as she should be.

I have to agree. Adam was marked fairly and is just not as good as the four guys who finished ahead of him. To tell you the truth I was a little disappointed in his programs and hope Wilson does a better job on his choreo/music for next season.

Christina is coming along and I wouldn't be surprised if she did well at Natls. But I don't see how she will beat out all of the older girls. She needs another year and maybe two to come into her own.

I have great hopes for Adam and Christina but it is not the US judges holding them back. That is just not realistic as US Skating hopes they get better and has no reason to discourage them or hold them back.
 

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
there is no way xtina gao is good enough now compare to the top 5. Everything about her screams juniorish. She can't even beat kanako.
Don't worry about the judges keeping her down. Her skating will keep her down.

I think a lot of the US girls would have trouble beating Murakami.;) I can see Christine placing ahead of some of the US girls if they get underrotations, to be quite frank. ahem Mirai, Alissa. I'm looking at you. But enough to go to the Olympics, No?.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I think a lot of the US girls would have trouble beating Murakami.;) I can see Christine placing ahead of some of the US girls if they get underrotations, to be quite frank. ahem Mirai, Alissa. I'm looking at you. But enough to go to the Olympics, No?.

That's all I am saying. With the current state of the US ladies, I'm only confident that Rachael is truly ready to handle the Olympics. Christina is still juniorish but technically speaking I think she's better than Caroline, Alissa and even Mirai and Ashley - she jumps more than 2 inches off the ground, doesn't UR, rarely falls, and can do a clean double axel. She probably will be like 6th or 8th or something but if Alissa splats and URs, Caroline has a repeat of SC, Mirai URs, Ashley rushes everything and URs, Christina could probably pull ahead.

That being said, do you think the 2008 Mirai was ready to go to the Olympics? She was a year younger then than Christina is now and very juniorish but she still won and got huge scores for two very cutesy juniorish programs. What about 2008 Rachael? 2008 US nationals was a podium of tiny, juniorish teens. If the Olympics were in 2008, do you think the US should have sent the imploding Meissner and headcase Bebe to worlds instead of Mirai and Rachael?
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
I think a lot of the US girls would have trouble beating Murakami.;) I can see Christine placing ahead of some of the US girls if they get underrotations, to be quite frank. ahem Mirai, Alissa. I'm looking at you. But enough to go to the Olympics, No?.

No disrepect to Murakami. :bow:
But it was just an example to show why Gao is NOT ready NOW, which is NOT what silverlake's been saying.
A few of the top girls are world junior champions who's been developing in the past 2 seasons.
Gao isn't even as good as these girls 2 years ago, what makes her better than them now.
 

Dark-Eyes

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
In my opinion, Ashley is under-rated around here. She's had all season to build confidence and get some international experience under her. I'm counting on her to pull off a clean skate and medal. If Sasha brings her A-game, she'll take the gold. But who knows. Rachael is very strong as well.

Its going to be one big surprise and that's why I'm so excited! Anything could happen.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
I love Ashley's skating and I pray it all goes well and she makes it on the team
 

PolymerBob

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
That being said, do you think the 2008 Mirai was ready to go to the Olympics? She was a year younger then than Christina is now and very juniorish but she still won and got huge scores for two very cutesy juniorish programs. What about 2008 Rachael? 2008 US nationals was a podium of tiny, juniorish teens. If the Olympics were in 2008, do you think the US should have sent the imploding Meissner and headcase Bebe to worlds instead of Mirai and Rachael?

I read an article after the 2007 GPF, though I can't recall where. At the senior GP Final, Kimmie and Caroline were the 2 U.S. ladies to qualify. Kimmie faltered while Caroline finished 4th. An official from the USFSA was there, and asked an ISU official if there was any possibility of sending Caroline to the World Championship. He got a definite NO!!!! :biggrin:
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
I love Ashley's skating and I pray it all goes well and she makes it on the team

Ashley is growing on me. I certainly don't underestimate her.
If she skates her best in both programs I would be surprised if she does not finish 1st or 2nd.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
she's fantastic. I've loved watching her career grow from novice till now!
 

MKFSfan

Medalist
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
I read an article after the 2007 GPF, though I can't recall where. At the senior GP Final, Kimmie and Caroline were the 2 U.S. ladies to qualify. Kimmie faltered while Caroline finished 4th. An official from the USFSA was there, and asked an ISU official if there was any possibility of sending Caroline to the World Championship. He got a definite NO!!!! :biggrin:

Because at the 2007 GPF, Caroline was too young to go to 2008 Worlds.
 
Last edited:

cornell08

Final Flight
Joined
May 10, 2009
Christina's choreography might be juniorish, but her jumps are solid and way less often (and egregiously) underrotated than the top 7. She has height and good mid-air posititioning. Flatt's jumps even when fully rotated have a wonky landing technique where her whole body seems to swing around and tilt as if off balance. If we were betting, I would go all in on Christina having the highest freeskate TES.
 

PolymerBob

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Ashley is growing on me. I certainly don't underestimate her.
If she skates her best in both programs I would be surprised if she does not finish 1st or 2nd.

Ashley seems to be the strongest and most muscular of the ladies. In many sports, that's an advantage, but it doesn't seem to be in skating.

All of us have our favorites and that's fine. All of us have our reasons for having our favorites, and that's also fine. My sincere hope is that the judging is fair. If our favorites fail ( and for most of us, they will ) let it be because they skated poorly, and not because of some hidden agenda.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Ashley seems to be the strongest and most muscular of the ladies. In many sports, that's an advantage, but it doesn't seem to be in skating.

Um, Joannie Rochette? Alena Leonova? Shizuka Arakawa? Irina Slutskaya?

Being strong and muscular definitely helps, because the ladies who are not as strong and muscular have trouble with URs (Alissa), jump height (Caroline, Sasha), doubling jumps (Lepisto), and stamina through the entire program (Lepisto and the rest of the European ladies). People always talk about how Rachael can do hard jumps so late in the program with little speed because she is very physically strong.

Yuna, Mao and Miki fall into the first category even though they are very thin because they are also super strong and very muscular, but are naturally thinner.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Ashley seems to be the strongest and most muscular of the ladies. In many sports, that's an advantage, but it doesn't seem to be in skating.

All of us have our favorites and that's fine. All of us have our reasons for having our favorites, and that's also fine. My sincere hope is that the judging is fair. If our favorites fail ( and for most of us, they will ) let it be because they skated poorly, and not because of some hidden agenda.

I agree with that Bob. I think most GS posters feel the same way.
There has been some whining from a few about favoritism - and I am not shy about whining myself when I think the judging is bad or politics/favoritism looked to be part of a result.

Usually I wait until after a competition to complain though. :laugh:
I think the Pairs and Men's event was judged pretty well and I expect the Ladies and Dance will also be scored fairly.

Caroline has always been a favorite of mine but I think she still has to get adjusted to her growth and maybe fix up a few tech problems.

If she doesn't make it this year I hope she will come back stronger next season.
She is younger than the other favorites and is a world class spinner with some beautiful qualities to her skating.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Christina's choreography might be juniorish, but her jumps are solid and way less often (and egregiously) underrotated than the top 7. She has height and good mid-air posititioning. Flatt's jumps even when fully rotated have a wonky landing technique where her whole body seems to swing around and tilt as if off balance. If we were betting, I would go all in on Christina having the highest freeskate TES.

Her TES from the JGPF LP (which doesn't include the spiral sequence that is in the senior ladies LP) is higher than Ashley, Alissa, Mirai, and Caroline's LP TES scores from the whole season. Rachael's SA LP TES score was higher but only by a few points which basically is a spiral sequence.

I hope she goes to Jr. Worlds because I think she could medal. Polina and Kanako will probably be the other two medalists but I thin Christina could potentially beat both of them, especially if Polina leaves out her 3-3 again and Kanako's jumps keep getting downgraded.

I am also interested to see how Angela Maxwell will do at nats, she's a great talent and in my mind was underscored last season. I don't know how Katrina Hacker managed to come in 5th without a flip or lutz in the SP or FS, she is beautiful though.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
I've been a fan of Ashley's since the first time I saw her as a junior - her speed and dynamism blew me away. I'm just waiting for her to put it all together. I thought her SP last season was a big step forward in terms of polish but unfortunately (for me, apparently no one else) I don't like her FP this season.

Still, she's almost there. I don't think she'll do it in time for the Olympics but if she does, cool! :agree:
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I know how Mirai can win. Seeing that Evan has the same coach and just changed his LP format, I know what Mirai can do to avoid pesky edge calls and under-rotated doubles.

Her current LP jump layout:

3lz-2t-2lo
2a-2t or 2a-3t
3f
3lz
3lo-2t
2a
3t

What she should change her layout to:

3t-2t-2lo or 3f-2t-2t if she can rotate that last jump better as a 2t
3f-2a sequence
3lz
3lo
3t-2a sequence
3f
3sal or 2a (if she can't so 3al anymore)

Why this works. 1.) one lutz instead of two, meaning only one "e"/"!" call 2.) 6 triples without having to do a 2a-3t and get it ratified
3.) doing jumps in sequence will get her more points (2a > 2t), and they are less likely to get DGed because her 2a is very strong and usually gets high GOEs

We have seen many ladies use sequences recently and I think it is a very good idea. Akiko does 7 triples in her FS and changed the layout to include two sequences now, changing a 2a-3t to a 3t-2a sequence and changing the 3lz-2t-2lo to a 3f-2t-2lo to only include one 3lz in the FS instead of two which is smart because she gets edge calls. I thought that was a very smart move by Akiko and I think the American ladies should find a way to be more competitive. I really think sequences are a great way to milk the CoP.
 
Last edited:
Top